FULL TEXT: INQ&A with Senator Sonny Trillanes

Following INQ&A’s exclusive interview with self-confessed Davao Death Squad member Edgar Matobato, we are sharing with you the transcript of our interview with Senator Antonio “Sonny” Trillanes IV last September 27, 2016.

In this INQ&A interview, Trillanes talks about how his team vetted Matobato and what he thinks about President Rodrigo Duterte’s relationship with the military.

The show is hosted by INQUIRER.net Editor in Chief John Nery and Chief of Reporters Kristine Sabillo.

INQ&A is broadcast live every Tuesday, 8 to 9 p.m. via INQ 990 Television (Digital Terrestrial Television), Radyo Inquirer 990AM, and INQUIRER.net’s Facebook and other social media accounts. Inquirer 990 TV can be viewed on ABS-CBN’s TV Plus, RCA and Godan digital TV boxes.

Below is the full transcript of the interview with Trillanes.

John Nery, INQUIRER.net Editor in Chief: Tonight we have a very special guest. INQ&A is of course on Radyo Inquirer 990. It is also carried live on Facebook through Inquirer.net. It is also on Inquirer TV through digital television. It is also covered by the various Inqurier social media platforms – on Viber, on Kakao, on Line.

My name is John Nery, I am the Editor in Chief of Inquirer.net and with me is my co-host, Chief of Reporters of Inquirer.net, Kristine Sabillo

Kristine Sabillo, INQUIRER.net Chief of Reporters: Thank you John. Good evening to everyone watching us tonight. It’s my happy task to introduce our guest for tonight and indeed we have a very special, controversial guest and very timely indeed.

Before we introduce him I would like to give three things that we would like you to know about him. A mix of light and serious stuff. Number one according to his staff he has a dog and it’s a chow-chow named Bruno. The second one is that one of his hobbies is playing tennis and the third is he was elected senator while still detained in Fort Bonifacio. In fact, he set up office there because it took him a while before he was granted amnesty to actually serve in the senate. Ladies and gentlemen, Senator Antonio Trillanes IV. We would like to welcome you back senator. You were actually our first guest for INQ Live during the election campaign and at the time we still didn’t have a regular show with Radyo Inquirer. So we would like to thank you as well for participating there because it led to us having regular show.

Nery: Welcome Senator!

Senator Antonio “Sonny” Trillanes IV: Maraming salamat po Mr. John and Ms. Kristine and to all of those following the program INQ&A.

Nery: Thank you. This is our 10th episode and it promises to be a blockbuster. In fact marami na pong tanong ang among natanggap and we will have the chance to ask these questions as we go along. But senator first question, matapos kayong magbigay ng privilege speech kahapon do you believe that there is such a thing as the Davao Death Squad?

Trillanes: Most definitely. At lalong lumiwanag ito because of the revelations of Mr. Matobato. So kinuha nation yan. Vinet natin contrary to the claims  of my collegeaus. Vinet po natin ito ng maigi. Chineck natin to make sure na hindi tayo malusutan ulit kagaya ni Ador Mawanay.

So kahapon nga, during my privilege speech, napdesent ko yung ibang documents that would bolster the credibility of Mr. Matobato.

Sabillo: Besides Edgar Matobato, before that, did you have any evidence or information about the Davao Death Squad?

Trillanes: Actually, long-running rumor na yan but somehow, for someone to us assume na walang direct participation si Mayor Duterte, probably merong parang indirect approval about the operations. So parang you look the other way na lang para hindi, hindi mo nag maconfront. Ito yung first big break about it.

Nery: This is a hard truth. Do you think the Senate is up to task?

Trillanes: Sa ngayon nagagrapple pa sila dyan. Kasi on the one hand, popular si President Duterte and at the same time nagkaroon ng chilling effect somehow yung ginagawa kay Senator De Lima. Plus of course meron ding mga kumbaga complications yung ibang mga senador natin so very vulnerable sila. So right now nagagrapple sila. On the other hand, nandun yung pressure. So once the popularity wanes, at nag turn yung political tide, I’m sure the senators would be up to the task.

Nery: Wow very high risk ang approach.

Sabillo: Senator, gaano kalaki ang tiwala nyo kay Edgar Matobato? You said you vetted him. How was the vetting process. And what leads you to believe that…do you think he’s 100 percent telling the truth?

Trillanes: Yung pag-vet kasi namin usually pag may nagwalk-in, in this case, he was referred to us by Senator De Lima. Normally it goes through stages, different sets of eyes and ears magtatanong then we would check randomly yung mga statements niya then mararamadaman mo. Pero kaya nga several sets of eyes at every set of stage para hindi ka maba-blindside kasi malay mo madala ka lang eh, naging sympathetic ka and then you’d want to believe everything that he has to say.

Nery – Did you believe him from the start?

Trillanes: Noong time na nakarating na sa akin, medyo, pag kasi humarap na ako ibig sabihin na-clear na niya yung first few stages then he checked out. Alam niyo, I’ll have to say this, when I was a cadet I was a member of this  honor committee, the cadet honor committee. Ganon yung ginagawa naming, we investigate and we prosecute and we judge yung mga violators. And mainly since hindi naman kami restrained by the court processes and court procedures, kami ang bine-base naming we extract information and we get witnesses, we investigate at nakikita namin based on the demeanor of the cadets’ delivery. So ganon yung nagiging instincts. For four years I was doing that and became the chairman eventually. I can say that mayroon akong eye for such witnesses. Ito na nga, I believe Mr. Matobato is genuine, is really a member of Davao Death Squad. Ngayon yung kanyang mga testimonies kailangan nating i-validate one by one. That’s what we did and that’s what we’re doing dahil we’ll have to factor in yung edad niya, yung lapses in memory. Remember, itong pagpatay ng tao is a regular thing for him. So kung since 1988 pumapatay sila and let’s say a thousand people, so ang average once a week, ang titingnan mo rito mamimix-up na niya yung pinatay niya noong 1992 doon sa 1995. So generally makikita lang niya yung papano nila ginagawa sometimes binabaril sa ulo, pinaplantahan ng 38. Other times ina-abduct, ginagarote, chop-chop, binubuhusan ng oil — so kumbaga may mga ganon siya. Ang kailangan ditto is pigain niya muna yung memory bank niya pag may mga specific instances. Otherwise kung randomly tatanungin mo siya, ang magiging instinct niya is generally “ang ginagawa naming ganito.” So if you nitpick talagang magkakaroon ng inconsistency pero kapag pina-reflect mo talaga deeply these specific instances, flawless yung recollection niya lalo yung mga nag-standout.

Sabillo: What can you say about what Senator Cayetano said that Matobato is supposedly not familiar with the tools or the materials that they used when they kill someone. Before the show you were mentioning that it’s really his trade?

Trillanes: Ganito kasi yan eh, may mga role eh as he described it, merong mga taga-surveillance, may target, may taga-casing ng mga lugar. So siya meron siyang specific skill set eh yung nanggagarote o yung nambabaril. Eh yung pag minsan sila naman yung nagliligpit, he just deals with the tools provided. Hindi naman siya yung tagabili. Diba, that’s trivial for somebody like Matobato. May mga striker na tinatawag, may mga errand boys na tagabili nung mga ganon. And ano nga eh, illiterate siya, so hindi kasi maka-relate si Sen. Cayetano doon sa mga bagay bagay na ganoon na hindi lahat ng tao alam yung mga nalalaman nung somebody like him.

Nery: Senator let me ask the first question from social media. We have a reader, Vladsky. Two basic questions, una bakit walang sworn statement o affidavit si Matobato before Senator Leila presented him and pangalawa, bakit kayong dalawa lang may alam. Parang nabulagta yung ibang senators. Can you explain what happened?

Trillanes: Unang una hindi po yan ang required. They are saying now na dapat sinama sa invitation, may proseso. Actually prerogative yan ng chairman, and the chairman then was Secretary Leila de Lima. Prerogative niya yan kung papano niya ibebet yung testigo and I believe she did, we did, I did. So, bago naman hinarap si Mr. Matobato, ngayon yung sworn statement for affidavit hindi siya necessary. Wala sa rules naming na kailangan yan. Ngayon nire-raise lang nila ito because they felt they were blindsided at naging controversial nga yung testimony ni Mr. Matobato.

Nery: Sorry to ask but I don’t know if you could speak for Senator Leila, but was there an attempt to blindside the likes of Senator Alan? Kasi andon po ako nung hearing, nakita ko yung mukha niya para talagang hindi mo mapinta eh.

Trillanes: Actually ganito yan eh, this is the first time that I’m going to tell this pero at some point mayroong lawyer kasi itong si Mr. Matobato. Lawyer siya nung time na nasa WPD pa siya. May nag reach-out sa kanya, nag-offer, huwag nang i-mention si Pres Duterte and Paolo Duterte – ayaw ni Matobato, determined sya to expose him all the way. So ngayon, then, nag cut na sya ng communication dito sa Lawyer na ‘to. So at that point, alam nya na – na alam na ni Pres.

na lalabas na ito at some point and na-compromise na rin ang kanyang security, so duon na bumilis yung sitwasyon. So they have an inkling, ako I believe it’s one of the sources of agitation ni Pres Duterte that time – yun yung time na, week na nagra run sya all over the place. So yun yung situation. Wala naming deliberate attempt, gusto lang naming marining ng buong sambayanan yung istorya nya. Kung hindi kasi, they can put-up obstacles: yang mga sinasabing mga… kelangan may affidavit… lahat yan, gagawin nila yan. Dito, nasabi na ngayon ni  ano (Matobato) – na wala silang nagawa to prevent this testimony from happening.

Nery: Let me see if I get this right, so, bago lumabas si Matobato, meron na syang kausap na abogado, who asked him, baka pwedeng kang mag testify, pero wag mong banggitin yung Duterte father and son. Parang ganon ba yon?

Trillanes: Parang ganon. So itong abogado na ‘to, abagado na nya ito nung nasa WPD pa sya, I don’t lnow how he got this. Itong abogado na ito, apparently, some people from the Duterte Administration where able to get in touch with him and wanted to strike a deal with him  and yon na nga ang in-offer nila, na basta’t bahala na daw sila. Ngayon, nung hindi pumayag si Mr Matobato, nag cut na sya ng ties, so alam nya na itong abogado na ito, reported back to the Duterte camp and said “hindi tinanggap”  so alam na nilang may lalabas na ganito.

Sabillo:  Senator, relatively, related to that, I’m not sure if you’re in the position to answer, but there’s a question from Kris Rivera from Twitter, “why there’s delay in presenting Matobato and alleged evidence versus Duterte, why not present before elections. Did you know about him before elections?

Trillanes: No, in fact si Sen De Lima, managed to bail yung custodian, yung nagtatago kay Mr. Matobato – got in touch with Sen De Lima I think the last days of August. So duon pa lang, nasabi nya sa akin, I was still in the US at that time. So pagbalik ko, duon pa lang, pinaspasan namin yung vetting process, kaya naming na-present. Alam nyo kung hawak ko ito, eh di sana nailabas ko yan. Hindi naman ako namimili ng right time sa pag present ng katotohanan, so ‘yan.

Sabillo: Nagtatago pa sya at the time of campaign?

Trillanes: Yes, nagtatago sya, at  may mga nagkupkop sa kanya…

Nery: Natanong nyo ba sya? Bakit hindi sya nilabas nang, whoever, before the elections?

Trillanes: Ako, I’m speculating ano, kasi nung 2014 anduun na sya sa Witness Protection Program, but you know the politics on this land ano, pag ka-alyado mo, di mo ginagalaw. Probably they’re thinking na, since they need the votes of Davao, and then Mayor Duterte’s support in Mindanao. So they didn’t want to risk offending him, and that’s the reason why yung mga ganitong mga political warlords, humahaba ang sungay, kasi sinasanto ng mga National leaders. Look at Ampatuan, kaya humaba ang sungay nyan at nagging ganyan yan, because the National leaders are always looking at the votes that his family will contribute to the National elections. So in fact sinusuportahan, binibigyan ng project, lahat-lahat because of that.  And same with Mayor Duterte. Davao is a big area, malaking boto nyan, so ganyan.

Nery: Going back to the privilege speech, what was your objective? In making the speech first and in that fashion, parang 3 parts eh?

Trillanes: Well, alam nyo, the hearing before that, the one presided by Sen Gordon, I felt hindi fair para kay Mr Matobato yung situation, yung hinahanapan sya ng butas, nililito sya, and yun na nga yung difficulty nya, hindi sya magaling mag Tagalog, hindi pa sya literate, so talagang mahirap ano, at tapos hinahanapan ng butas. Yun ang difference, kaya nga I needed to cite when I was still a cadet nung AFP officer ako, when we conduct an investigation, ang objective mo is to extract as much information as you can. Hindi yung mindset ng abogado na hahanapan kita ng butas para kwestyunin yung credibility mo. So kami, we can get that by verifying the information that they’re saying. Pag sinabi mong ditto ka nakatira, pwede naming i-check yan, maraming pwedeng gawin. So nakita ko, hindi nasabi nyang maayos yung istroya nya, yung katotohanan na hawak nya dahil hindi sya equipped to do so. So kaya I presented the findings that I got thru my own investigation.

Nery: Sa first part, eto yung sinasabing nyong inconsistencies? Yun naman pala, hindi, parang may explanation ka, halimbawa, yung pagpaslang kay Richard King sa may Mac Donald’s, yun pala, wala naman pala sya dun, and in fact there was a Mac Donald’s very near the place. Tapos yung second part was yung parang positive statements na, yung positive evidence, so to speak: yung I.D. nya, yung payroll. And then the third part, medyo yun ang nakakagulat, kasi humingi ka na ang sabi mo biglang “we are facing the prospect of living under a mass murderer as president, yun ang…”

Trillanes: So ganun ang logical explanation nun, kung baga, kung wala naming inconsistency, tapos because of the positive evidence, ibig sabihin na che-checkout naman lahat ng sinasabi nya, so, saan ito pupunta? Yun na nga ang prospect nun na mass murderer ang Presidente natin, kasi  yun yung allegation nya eh, may problema tayo nyan. Hindi ba at least, that warrants a deeper investigation? So yun lang naman ang aking motion. 

Nery: So babalik po ako sa tanong ko kanina, do you think the senate is actually, more or less it depends on the political tide na sinasabi nyo?

Trillanes: Yes,  as always nauuna muna yung mga tao, yung public sentiment, pagkatapos nun yung mga pulitiko magtatalunan na yan. It (is) sad, but that’s how it works. So kung baga sa “trailblazers” like us, ano ito eh, mabigat yung role na yun, na magi spearhead ng mga investigation or opposition,  mabigat na laban.

Sabillo: Senator, question from riverphoenix007 on Twitter, how are you going to ensure the safety of Mr Matobato in the light of the expose?

Trillanes: Actually, we can’t! We can’t ensure his safety. Ang “kuwan” lang dito is that a mantle of protection by the committee, kasi yung committee nag rule na under protective custody sya ng committee so yun na lang yun … that’s the most that we can give.

Nery: Is he expected back tomorrow sa resumption ng hearing?

Trillanes: Mi-nove na nila ang hearing

Nery: Kelan na ba (yung hearing)?

Trillanes: I don’t know, October 3?

Nery: Sa October 3, is he expected back there?

Trillanes: Yes! And the policemen that he identified are also expected to be there.

Nery: Parang executive session?

Trillanes: No! I believe yung “kuwan: nila is non is an open session.

Nery: After your privilege speech? Because of privilege speech? Ano bang nangyari duon? Naalala ko usapan non nasa executive session muna…

Trillanes: Pino float lang nila yun… yung mga … how to handle it, I believe magiging mood nay un kasi, I’m confident Mr Matobato be able to identify each and everyone of them. But magandang exercise to test the credibility of Mr Matobato.

Nery: Looking at the positive evidence that you presented, Ilang beses nabanggit yung City Mayor’s office, or yung Heinous Crimes Investigation Section, so parang, meron nang…

Trillanes: …and even the way he recited the names ano… sabi ko nga, sinasabi nilang “coached witness” sabi ko nga, “Can you teach me how coach an illeterate witness?” papano mo papa memorize yung mga pangalan na yon? Mahirap yon! Di ba, bibigay mo… sabi ko nga kahit mag rehearse ako a hundred times , I wouldn’t be able to pull it off the way he did.

Nery: When you say illiterate, talagang hindi sya marunong magbasa?

Trillanes: Hindi sya marunong magbasa…

Nery: You saw that for yourself?

Trillanes: Yes

Nery: So… halimbawa kung tuturuan sya, sabihin mo “Arturo Lascanas” isusulat nya, hindi rin nya mababasa…

Trillanes: Hindi rin nya mababasa…

Nery: So, kelangan sasabihin, if ever…

Trillanes: Sasabihin sa kanya… pero alam nyo naman, people na nag e exam, that’s impossible to do ano? Yung sasabihin lang sa yo?  Tapos when you memorize, talagang binabasa mo that’s how we do it, so ganyan po ang challenge nyan kung talagang iko coach mo. Hindi nga, we don’t talk to him, we don’t brief him. And remember, after 10 hours, more than 10 hours of “grilling” by the senators, and the most that they found were inconsistencies, na ayun na nga, as I explain sa privilege speech ko na wala naman, or minor trivial event.

Sabillo: Senator, a question from the same Twitter user “Currently the President and DOJ are bent on “crushing” Sen De Lima at all cost, do you think you are next?”

Trillanes: Actually parang nung the latter part of the campaign sinisimulan na ko nun eh. I assume na when I joined in this expose, I assume na bibirahin ako, pero yun na nga, hind naman bago yan sa akin, nangyari nay an nung panahon ni GMA, hindi naman masarap na feeling yon, to be subjected through that, but, kelangan hong gawin.

Nery: Naalala ko, when we first interviewed you, when you’re running for Vice President, nabanggit nyo na, tinanong naming kayo na “pano na kung manalo si Vice Pres Binay?” tapos you’ve said something na “Eh di ikulong!”  Parang ganon no, so parang, ngayon, do you feel that’s a prospect under…

Trillanes: Definitely! In fact I’m totally aware that they have sets of lawyers, trying to find anything that can put us away and in jail, or magkaroon man sila ng leverage, parang ganon. In fact they checking even the amnesty provision, baka … parang pwede bawiin… So, ganun lang talaga yan, and nakita ko nga lahat ng mga underhanded tactics… if you look at what they’re doing to Sen De Lima… it’s on the table… all options are on the table para lang makuha nila …

Nery: We can talk about that later, we can talk about some of the things you did during the campaign, may be they got your attention. After your privilege speech, can you give us an idea ano ang reaction ng mga senators? Kasi ang focus ng marami, yung nagtatalunan kayo ni … your friend Sen Cayetano, was there something that we’ve missed?  Was there something goin on? Other things happening in the Senate?

Trillanes: Well yung mga private conversations dun, maraming nagsasabi na “ganun pala!” Akala kasi nila talaga, pag tiningnan mo na si Mr Matobato, baka ang tingin mo sa kanya, farmer, or ordinary… yung man-on-the-street lang. Hindi mo nakita sya as the hitman he claims to be. So kaya nga yung picture duon na may baril sya, that change the image eh, instantly. Plus the documents that followed, lumiwanag sa kanila that this guy indeed is a member of the Davao Death Squad.

Sabillo: Senator, why do you think a group like Davao Death Squad was able to operate for so long? And still operating?

Trillanes: Yeah! Ganito kasi eh, yung set-up nya, andudun sya under the office of Mayor, so andudun ayung Heinous Crime Unit as claimed by Mr Matobato, yun ang Davao Death Squad. So may pondo sila… yung Peace and Order Funds ang pinagkukuhanan. Based on the last budget, parang almost 800 million ang pondo nila dyan. So kung saan-saan nila ginagamit. Walang pwedeng mag imbestiga sa kanila kasi hawak naman ng Mayor yung Chief of Police. So they can do their thing with impunity.

Sabillo: Do you think this is something connected to what is happening now? With the Vigilante groups, he picks some of the Vigilante groups are under Police operations?

Trillanes: Ako, I believe walang Vigilante group, meaning, ako – I’m not connected with anybody parang I just took it from myself to kill addicts – No! walang ganon. Yun ang sinasabi nila… but how would I know who to kill? Di ba? Yung pinapatay nila yung mga nasa listahan ng mga nag-surrender and yung mga feed ng mga Kapitan. Sa kin magkakasama mga yan, in fact, even yung mga nanlaban, if add all lagay mo out of 100%, kung may nanlaban naman talaga, siguro mga 1% lang. All the rest as mentioned by Mr Matobato – ganon yon, tinutumba, pinaplantahan ng ….

Sabillo: Those killed by the unidentified men, do you think this unidentified men are police or civilians connected to the police?

Trillanes: Pwedeng Police mismo or mga assets ng Police; Police in plain clothes. Pero ganito yan, to be fair sa mga pulis natin, kahit papano na professionalize ni Pres Aquino yung PNP, he picked the right guys to be PNP Chief, so nawala yung ganyang culture, pero meron mga pulis na willing na gumawa ng ganyan. Pero not all units of PNP.. may mga pulis na pwedeng gumawa ng ganon… so kung nape pressure sila, ang information daw, they are being pressured dahil may quota. Wala naming specific number, but, pag sinasabing  “Owala kayong ginagawa dyan” ibig sabihin walang bodies na lumalabas. Pagka walang bodies, you can be relieved. So ganun yung measure of performance – is the number of bodies killed.

Sabillo: So this is the rumor now with the police?

Trillanes: Sa kin kasi yun lang ang pwedeng nangyayari, yung Vigilante thing na group – not connected, I don’t believe that. I also do not believe na yung mga  druglords are killing their own people, kasi, sabihin non e nawalan na tayo ng control. Hindi ganun, wala pa tayo sa level na ganun, nowhere close tayo sa Mexico. So itong mga nangyayaring ito  – ganung yung modelo nila… yung sa Davao… yung Davao Death Squad.

Nery: Meron pa akong itatanong tungkol sa privilege speech mo but Senator, we have viewers watching from Hong Kong and the United States, baka we can say “Hi”

Trillanes: Hi! Binabati natin ang mga kababayan natin sa Hong Kong at sa US at hopefully, buti nasusubaybayan ninyo ang mga nangyayari sa Pilipinas.

Nery: Senator, sa inyong privilege speech, mayroon kayong isang tanong I think maraming napaisip… nung unang lumabas si Matobato , tinanong si Gen Dela Rosa, “Kilala nyo ba sya?” sabi nya “I’ve never seen that man before in my whole life, pero narinig ko, tirador yan sya.” So binanggit mo yon… tapos kinonek mo, andaming proof: na nagta trabaho sa City Mayor’s at naka detail sa Heinous Crimes. Tapos ang tanong ninyo, “Anong ginagawa ng hitman sa office ng City Mayor?” Ano ba sagot dun?

Trillanes: Precisely! Kaya kailangan natin mag imbestiga. And yung mga claims nya na mga pinatay, in-abduct, tapos kung saan tapunan, lahat nag check-out. Tapos andun pa din sya sa Office of the City Mayor for 24 years. Eto illiterate ito, hindi sya marunong magmaneho, hindi naman siguro ito taga timpla ng kape, tapos meron syang baril na government issued, may license –  na bawal kasi nga hindi sya marunong magbasa, pero, nagawan nila ng paraan na meron syang baril, Yun ang mga mabibigat na tanong. And kung na check-out lahat ng mga sinabi nya, ibig sabihin totoo rin yung sinasabi nya na malamang totoo, na least yung sinasabi nya na lahat ng ito, yung Davao Death Squad, ang mastermind nito ay si Pres Duterte nung sya ay Mayor pa ng Davao City. Alam, ninyo, kahit magbulag-bulagan tayo, alam na natin, na may idea tayo na kahit makahagip tayo ng balita about the Davao Death Squad. The President himself admitted na meron silang napatay na 1700. He was bragging about it. So ito na ngayon ang confirmation ng mga sinasabi mismo ni Pres Duterte. Minsan nagugulat na lang ako sa mga ibang kasamahan ko na they’re acting as if Pres Duterte is a saint. When he never pretended to be one, in fact yeterday, he was questioning the existence of God. Anyway, that’s another story, pero yun , ito yung confirmation, yung validation ng sinasabi mismo at ipinagmamalaki ni Pres Duterte.

Nery: Ano ang next step sa Senado ngayon?

Trillanes: Yun na nga, ang sinasabi ko, grabe itong allegation na ito, we cannot sweep this under the rug. At the very least, we dig deeper. Tingnan natin kung saan ito pupunta, at least ma rule out lang natin. Give the President to clear his name. Kung wala tayong makita at least safe tayo masasabi natin the country is in good hands, hindi mass murderer yung Presidente natin. Pero, kung totoo, eh may kailangan tayong pag-usapan. Kailangan mag usap-usap pong muli ang mga Pilipino kung ok lang sa atin yan.

Sabillo: Senator, I’m gonna connet 2 questions from social media, first one is from landatron123: “Do you see a better  Philippines without the government of Duterte Administration?” the other one is coming from Grace Bello Galas “if you’re elected the President of the country, how would you stop illegal drug trade?”

Trillanes: Yung do we see a better Philippines without the … President Duterte, most definitely, that’s my position during the election campaign, we have a better candidate from Sen Grace Poe, but the people chose Pres Duterte so we have to live with that. And as regards with how to handle the illegal drug trade, sa kin, it should be holistic, kelang yung sa demand side, yung mga hindi pa nalululong o hindi pa pumapasok sa droga, kelangan may mga massive information campaign sa mga schools, sa mga churches, sa mga communities. Yung mga ill effects ng drugs, sa mga magulang, kelangan, bata pa lang,  sabihin na natin, kung nagpo promote sila ng sex education, why not have a component sa ating basic educationagainst illegal drugs. So that’s one. Dun naman sa mga nalulong na, kelangan natin ng mga rehabilitation component. We have to get it out of the system kasi may chemical imbalances na kino cause yan. Pero hindi yan imposible na task. We know of people na nag experimant sa droga, o nalulong sa droga, but somehow, thru whether it is a religious experience or rehab or nag mature, or nag asawa.. nawala eh…sa sistema. So you can give them another chance. So dun naman sa supply side, pwede nating i-upgrade ang capacity ng PDEA to handle the drug problem: modernize natin ang kanilang equipment, dagdagan natin ang personnel, dagdagan natin ang pondo ng operations and intelligence gathering. So ito yung mga pwedeng gawin nila. Sa Prosecution side, kelangan natin mag create ng drug courts, dedicated to handle drug cases, may mga prosecutors din na dedicated for that. Tapos detention facilities, na para din sa mga suspects at sa mga detainees. Yan yung mga pwede nating gawin na mga policies to address the drug problem.

Nery: Sa House of Representatives, sa ongoing inquiry naman sa supposed illegal drug trade sa BIlibid, ano pong basa nyo dun?

Trillanes: Sa akin mga coercive tactics yan. Unang una , credibility-wise, character-wise, you cannot rely on convicts. You cannot holo-on to the word of convicts. So yun problema dun eh, bakit nangyari yan tapos bibigyan kaagad ng immunity, tapos akala ko ba, war on drugs tayo tapos sinasabi ninyo itong mga druglords sa Bilibid  – yung mga nagha –handle ng ilang percent ng drug trade in the country, tapos ngayon ka-partner ninyo? Di ba parang in a a pursuit of a n alleged protector, mas pinaboran nyo yung drugloard kesa sa sinasabi nyo… kasi ang protector, kasi ano lang yan eh, so many levels… lower yan eh… kasi druglords ang pinaka culprit. So it doesn’t make sense. But kung ang kanilang ultimate objective is to have a chilling effect dun sa mga kumakalaban kay Pres Duterte , eh they’re able to achieve that, at least for some.

Nery: Ano naman ang sagot ninyo sa puna na or yung criticism na ang ginagawa ninyo sa Senado a coercive din?

Trillanes: In what way? Eh outnumbered nga kami eh at every turn. Kung bogus ito then I always say this, we will fall flat on out faces eh. Pero we will let the people decide, we should always let the people decide, kung mali iyan, huwag nating pagtakpan.

Sabillo: Senator you have an experience in vetting in investigating, Question again from Grace Bello Galas, “Do you believe De Lima is benefiting from drug money? Or how about any other accusations against her?”

Trillanes: Ako personally, it doesn’t fit the profile, ang sinasabi nila on the take si Sen De Lima sa mga drug lords na nasa Bilibid, Pero kung maalala ninyo, it was only during the turn of then Sec of Justice De Lima na na-raid itong Bilibid. And she did that ilang beses of times. Sunod-sunod. Dun na-expose yung Jacuzzi. It’s not under the Duterte Administration. She started it 2014 pa. So sinunod-sunod nya kumbaga ginulo nya ang mga buhay ng mga drug lords duon… nilipat nya yung mga ano ruon,,, so talagang dinisrupt nya ang operations. So it doesn’t make sense na tapos mong guluhin ang kanilang operations ay hihingi ka!  The normal…human nature siguro… ordinaryong kalakaran nyan would be… bago mo guluhin, magpadala ka ng emisaryo … “O, magbigay kayo ng pera, kung hindi, guguluhin naming kayo.” O kapag nag come-up na sila ng pera, hindi mo na guguluhin. Pero ito, ni-raid ito siguro mga 30 times eh. Tapos saka mo hihingan ng pera – it doesn’t make sense. Kumbaga hindi maganda yung script.

Nery: Senator, President Duterte has been visiting Military Camps to try to explain the war on drugs and enlist a support. May tanong si V Vergara “How close do you think is Duterte politicizing the Military?”

Trillanes: Sa akin… dangerously close na… kasi ngayon, I would have to say na very supportive yung Armed Forces sa kanya. And again I go back to the time of Pres Aquino , na professionalize na nya yung ranks nyan, napili nya yung magagaling na opisyal, which, incidentally sila pa rin yung mga nakaupo dyan. Kaya OK yung leadership. Ngayon yung mga sundalo supportive kay Pres Aquino, pero hindi nya minis-use or inabuse yung loyalty and support na yon. Ako, ang fear ko lang dito kasi, highly suspicious kasi yung frequency ng visits. You don’t need to visit every camp in the Armed Forces to deliver your point. Ako kinakabahan ako dyan, and in relation dito sa claims ni Mr Matobato… parang delikadong combination.

Nery: Yung combination na yan, Senator, yung pagbisita nya, might it have something to do with the resistance in the military to the peace talks with the communist party? Last week bisita naming yung Tiamzon couple, natanong din namin sila, so meron din silang perspective, anong tingin ninyo?

Trillanes: Pwede yon! One of the objectives yon, kung maaalala nyo, habang binibisita nya yung kampo, pinapalabas nya yung mga CPP-NPA leaders , so kumbaga, slight off hand yan eh. Na entertain yung mga sundalo natin while pinapakawalang yung mga leaders. Kaya walang nag signify man lang ng opposition, so that’s one, pero, another objective is, probably, yung kanilang paranoia na baka may destabilization. Wala naman kasi yung rank and file ngayon, the officer corps, talagang very professional yung AFP natin ngayon. Then the third one is sinusuyo mo. Kinukuha mo yung loyalty, at baka i-employ mo for that purposes, yun ang delikado.

Sabillo: Your information is that the Military fully backs the President because ang sabi din sa peace talks may mga hindi masaya sa mga nangyari.

Trillanes: Merong ganon ano, hindi mawawala iyon,  may mga nage express ng mga dissapointments, konti lang, but not enough to overcome yung loyalty and support to Pres Duterte.

Nery: Back to the original question, is it politicizing the Military and its coming dangerously close… because of his frequent visits?

Trillanes: No! Sa ‘kin kasi dito, the moment he employs them for political purposes, yuon yon. Kaya nga ang highly suspicious dun is yung frequency of visits. Kung wala ka naming plano i-employ sila for other political purposes, you don’t need to overdo it. You can deliver your message or support for AFP sa isang ano lang…

Nery: So itong lawless violence that allows Military to take part in law enforcement efforts. Is that part of the political activity na sinasabi nyo?

Trillanes: I believe he’s exposing the boundaries… kino kondisyon yung minds ng mga kababayan natin na “ayan, sanay na tayo sa State of National Emergencies, State of Lawlesssness” so parang this is the new normal, so pag nag next step ka na, maglagay ka na ng mga platoons of soldiers to some areas og Metropolis, nagle level-up ka na… till next thing you know… yun na.

Nery: Another thing Senator, I think hindi naman sikreto na AFP is one of the most pro-American institutions of the Philippines. There’s a lot of interactions with the American Military… top people go to (military) school in the US. In a few weeks we have a new, another war game military exercise. With that background, the President repeatedly saying “I am crossing the Rubicon, I am about to let go for alliance…” How do you think is that impacting on the Military?

Trillanes: Yon yung nagkakaroon ng some concerns… concerns pa lang naman, pero its mainly sa opposite wall…sa rank and file, they’re just doing their job. Yun naman ang ginagawa ni Pres Duterte kasi he feels na malapit na syang magkaroon ng cult followings: expanding fast… so tine test nya yun. Kumbaga, he keeps on floating these ideas na at some point “dito na tayo sa China ang Russia, mawawala na tayo sa US, so he’s letting his trial balloons to float around para masanay, not only the solidiers, but the populace with that idea na ganun na nga.

Nery: Senator, you spent 4 years in the PMA, 12 years in the Philippine Navy, ikaw personally, ano tingin mo sa trial balloon na iyon?

Trillanes: Sa kin ano yan, from a practical perspective, tanggalin natin ang political, being a former soldier in AFP, sa Navy hindi mo maisip papano mo i-operate yung Chinese-made warship. Problema yan sa maintenance manuals lang, nakita namin yan with other foreign-made vessels. May language barrier kaagad. Mahirap yan, then whereas sa American-made equipment, andun eh, alam nyo kaagad, how things are done, even the machinery, the main engines for example ng barko, so familiar kayo… yun pa lang yun sa technical maintenance aspect pa lang mabigat na, tanggalin mo pa yung political aspect, of course that’s for the AFP leadership to handle.

Sabillo: Senator babalikan natin yung isang issue nung campaign, a question from Flores Pilita, “What happened to Duterte’s BPI certifications that were supposed to be released after 10 days?”

Trillanes: Yun din ang tinatanong ko actually ilan na? Ilang buwan na ito? Ano na? Baka magandang maitanong yan… ulit… later on.

Nery: Kaya natatakot yung iba mong kasama sa Senado Senator eh, kahapon meron ka pang “We are not out to oust anyone… at least not yet.” Pabiro lang ba iyon?

Trillanes: Ayoko naman kasing … magsabi na it’s not gonna happen. I am not talking any extra-constitutional ouster plot, ano yan, pigment na nang imagination nila yan. Yung kasing impeachment is part of the Constitutional processes. And your vote to convict is basically voting to oust, so yun naman ang konstekto po non. Pero malayo pa tayo dyan, andito pa lang tayo sa fact-finding, yun po.

Nery: I just want to make sure, is it possible, in fact walang kinalaman si Presidente

Trillanes: Pwede ho, kaya ang sinasabi ko dapat yung mga ka alyado ni Pres Duterte mas game sila dito, dapat mas eager sila to prove na walang kinalaman si Pres Duterte, kasi yun ng transparency. Kasi i-compare natin kay Pres Aquino, remember yung sa DAP issue, saka yung sa Mamasapano? Wala sya ni restrain, lahat ng kailangan nyo, binigay. PNP wala syang pinigilan. Ako ka alyado ni Pres Aquino, hindi nya ko sinabihan na ganito, i-outvote nyo si Sen Grace Poe as committee chairman, walang ganon, walang underhandled tactics, talagang piniga natin. And we saw for ourselves na walang kinalaman.

Nery: Senator… baka we can ask you… yung media nakatutok talaga lalo na sa senado kasi andami nang nangyayari, so there’s a lot of coverage of extra judicial killings and hearings sa emergency powers at budget, meron ba kaming nakaligtaan? Meron bang mga importanteng nangyayari sa Senado na hindi naming nakikita dahil nakatutuok kami sa mga nabanggit ko?

Trillanes: Wala pa sa Senado, pero baka nasa House of Representatives ilalabas nila itong Tax Reform Program nitong Duterte Administration, kailangan ninyo itong himayin, kasi mabigat poi to, plano po nilang dagdagan ng excise tax ang gasolina, ng 6 pesos yung diesel, dadagdagan nila ng per liter ito ha, 6 pesos liter, yung mga sugary-drinks dadagdagan nila ng excise tax din, so tatamaan dito ang mga kababayan natin, and baka dito political noice nang EJK at nitong kay Mr Matobato, ay malulusutan ito, mabigat ito sa bulsa. Kaya kailangan malaman ito ng mga kababayan natin.

Nery: Parang kanina lang yata mayroong panukala sa House na Senior Citizens na aalisin yung value-added (tax).

Trillanes: Kasama yon, part of the package yon, so tatanggalin nila yung exemptions ng Senior Citizens sa mga restaurants, pati yung sa mga persons with disabilities. Kelangan Makita nyo , na hindi ito drug war lang… yaan ay tatamaan talaga sila.

Nery: Ano naman sa tingin mo ang magiging reaksyon ng Senado as an institution kung dumating na yung counterpart nun?

Trillanes: Sa kin, hindi ko palulusutin talaga yan, but isang boto lang ako. Kaya dapat makita natin, bantayan natin ang mga magtutulak nyan. Kelangan magalit ang mga taumbayan natin dito, kasi sa hirap nang buhay natin ngayon, we cannot afford additional taxes. So nakita ninyo , while the propaganda is bababaan yung income tax , pero yun pala babawiin dito. Kasi yung 6 pesos per liter ang itataas sa diesel , so ibig sabihin tataas yung pamasahe, tataas yung bilihin. Yun na yon.

Nery: Senator, is it worth it?

Trillanes: Itong risk ka kinakakaharap natin, Yes it is kasi this is the only country that we have, kung masira ito, under the wrong hands, talagang maraming maghihirap na Pilipino . Yes it is worth it.

Sabillo: Welcome to the last segment of our show… the GOOD, the BAD and the MAYBE. Basically we will give our Senator 10 topics related to the Philippines and he will have to answer if it is a good idea or a bad idea. He can say maybe if he is unsure or it is a controversial topic – but only once. Let’s start with the 10 topics:

Sabillo: Duterte visiting or touring our Military bases

Trillanes: Good idea

Sabillo: The Philippines following the Columbia as model for was on drugs

Trillanes: Good idea

Sabillo: President Duterte visiting China

Trillanes: Good idea

Sabillo: Decision to abort the transfer of Bilibid to Fort Magsaysay

Trillanes: Good idea

Sabillo: Federalism system in the Philippines

Trillanes: Bad idea

Sabillo: Modelling the Philippine Health Care system on that of Cuba

Trillanes: Good idea

Sabillo: DOF proposal to increase sin tax

Trillanes: Good idea

Sabillo: Perfecto Yasay as Secretary of Foreign Affairs

Trillanes: Good idea

Sabillo: Your friend Sen Cayetano as Secretary of Foreign Affairs

Trillanes: Good idea

Sabillo: Gloria Macapagal Arroyo as Secretary of Foreign Affairs

Trillanes: Bad idea

Sabillo: So that’s the 10 items. Do you want to explain?

Trillanes: Let me explain. Yung visiting military camps, good idea kung maganda yung intention mo pero kung ang plano mo later on, kaya mo kinukuha ang kanilang suporta, is to use them for other purposes, then it becomes a bad one. On its face, it’s still a good idea.

On President Duterte visiting China. While we should remain or strengthen our alliance with the US but we should continue to engage China in other matters. Though the trade, tourism and rights of the OFWs.

Yung Federalism talagang that’s a recipe for a disaster kasi maghihiwa-hiwalay yung ating bansa kapag tinuloy natin yan. May mga states na aasenso sila and they will just break-away from the central government.

Nery: Senator mukhang wala na talaga tayong oras. Ang bilis ng panahon.

Sabillo: Thank you very much Senator and to everyone watching INQ&A tonight. Follow us on social media, Twitter @jnery_newsstand @KSabilloINQ to learn who is next in the hotseat. So far, we’ve had record-breaking views tonight. Thank you very much and good night.

Nery: Thank you very much. Again Senator Sonny Trillanes, good luck on your initiative in the senate. Thank you to all of our audiences in the different platforms. This has been INQ&A. Thank you and good night.