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Napoles: Luy’s lawyer asked me for P38M


Janet Lim-Napoles answers questions on the alleged pork barrel scam from editors, columnists and reporters of the Philippine Daily Inquirer. PART 3.  Parts: 1 | 2 | 4 | 5

(Third of a series)

(Editor’s Note: The following is a verbatim transcript of a roundtable discussion between Inquirer editors, columnists and reporters, and Janet Lim-Napoles, the alleged mastermind behind the P10-billion pork barrel scam, on Thursday, Aug. 8, at the Inquirer main office in Makati City.)

Janet Lim-Napoles: Ma’am, sir, ganito po ha. Pagdating, umupo po kami. Walang personalan to ah … Kasi … Kasi hinanap siya … I have Louie, I have my witness … Umupo kami, nag-order sila ng sandwich … so sabi ko sana kinuha mo muna yung … puwede bang makahabol … papano po ibibigay ’yung side ko. [This refers to reporter Nancy Carvajal’s first interview with Napoles to get her side on July 13.-Ed.]

Carvajal: [Murmurs] Sandwich …

Napoles: Ang sabi niya … hindi … ’yung nangyari, ’di ba … so sabi ko papano mo ma-ide-defend ’yung side ko. Kukuha na lang ako dun sa counteraffidavit n’yo. Sabi ko, hindi ba dapat kausapin mo ’ko kasi, ’di ba, iba na rin ’yung mga nakasulat kahapon, ’di ba.

Carvajal: Hay. It wasn’t that way, ma’am … You said it that the …

Napoles: Anyway …

Joey Nolasco/Managing Editor: Siya muna. Hayaan mo. Hayaan mo na.

Napoles: Anyway, eh ’di nagtanong ka, bakit MOST (Marcos, Ochoa, Serapio and Tan Law Firm)? Eh ’di in-explain ko na si Acut (Jean-Paul Acut, MOST lawyer) … Tapos sabi mo, eh ’di ba MOST. Sabi ko hindi, walang kinalaman. “How about Jojo Ochoa (Executive Secretary Paquito Ochoa Jr.)? Do you know Jojo Ochoa?” Sabi ko hindi, hindi ko siya kilala. Kasi sa letter, sa pagsabi … para bang pagdating pa lang natin … walang kinalaman si Jojo Ochoa dito …

Carvajal: Exactly …

Napoles: Sana Nancy, alam mo na … nandiyan ang Diyos, kidlatan tayo.

Carvajal: Yes, ma’am.

Napoles: Hindi ’yan, hindi ’yan, tapos na ’yan. Na pa sa Diyos ko na ’yan… Sorry, ang… [Murmurs]

Carvajal: Ah, no, ma’am, I defend myself … but you are questioning my story.

Napoles: That’s the reason … Ayoko. Hindi po … tapos na ’yan…

Nolasco: OK, OK. Basta. Lawyer n’yo ba ang MOST o hindi?

Napoles: Hindi po … Si attorney Acut lang po.

Carvajal: Ah, no. We have the documents …

Chelo Banal-Formoso/Learning Editor: Andun sa documents …

Carvajal: It says … Nasa dokumento nga, ma’am …

Napoles: Kasi nga gamit nga ni Acut … Puwede ninyong puntahan yung MOST. Puwede n’yong kausapin si Acut.

Carvajal: But it’s in the document. Everything was based in the documents.

Napoles: Kaya nga I told you, noh. Bakit … ’di ba … kaya nung tinanong n’yo, I said no. Ba’t ko siya kukunin … ’Di ba ang mahal din nila, noh …

Carvajal: Hindi ko alam, ma’am.

Mike Ubac/Reporter: Pero ’yung case na ’yan lang daw ang na-handle yata ng MOST for you, one of its, ah … one instance lang …

Napoles: ’Yung si Acut … ginamit niya? Sa counteraffidavit ko … Kaya nga walang tatak ng MOST, address lang niya …

Carvajal: It’s there …

Napoles: I don’t know …

Carvajal: I have the document … I can show it to you …

Napoles: I don’t know it then…

Chato Garcellano/Opinion Editor: Can we hear Nancy?

Carvajal: Yes, it’s there … And in fact, ma’am, when I arrived, immediately sinabi mo sa akin, “Uy … walang kinalaman si Jojo Ochoa.” I did not say anything. Then when we sat down, ang sabi … tinanong pa nga kita eh, ma’am. Sabi mo sumulat pa nga ako sa Presidente … sabi mo, paano n’yo pinadala yung sulat n’yo … ’yun ’yung tanong ko.

Napoles: Kaya nga eh …

Carvajal: Ang sabi n’yo, ma’am, mi-nail n’yo.

Napoles: LBC.

Carvajal: I did not say anything …

Napoles: LBC …

Carvajal: Yeah, but our documents showed that it was received by the Office of the President.

Napoles: Pina-LBC po namin ’yan. I never … I gave it to Korina.

Carvajal: Ah, hindi po … we have the documents that showed it was written on April 17 and received on the same day.

Napoles: Hindi ko alam sino nagpa-receive, pero kami, in-LBC namin.

Carvajal: Hindi … andun po lahat ’yun sa dokumento, ’yun lang po ang sasabihin ko.  Lahat ho. At sinabi ko rin ho ’yun sa inyo, ma’am, na ’yun ’yung mayroon ’yung … Nagtanong ka kasi … paano ’yung denials mo kasi nakalagay dun ’yung … and sinabi ko, it will be based on this interview and the documents that you submitted to the DOJ (Department of Justice) … ’yung inyong affidavit …

Napoles: Pero sabi ko naman … Sana, kunin mo ’yung side ko kasi ’yung allegation mo, bagong allegation na. Pero kaya nga, ayaw ako papuntahin dito. Sa totoo lang, against na against, kasi after nga naming mag-ano iba ’yung nilagay … sabi ’wag na. Pero sabi ko, hindi, sige … Tapos nung tumawag nga sila, sige, pumunta ka na. ’Yun nga, parang iba yung pagkasabi ko, iba ’yung ano … And … I … kaya andito si Louie. Dapat may witness akong isa … ayokong … [Murmurs]

Gil Cabacungan/Senior Reporter: Ma’am Janet, kasi ’yung issue po, hindi naman po personal na sa inyo, eh. Public issue na po ito, eh. Kung lumabas po si Benhur tsaka si Merlina (Suñas)… nilabas po nila ’yung mga dokumento nila. Tapos sumusunod naman po sa …  nag-i-independent … ’di naman po lalabas kung hindi po kami magtatanong.

For example po, binigyan po kami nung document kay Congressman (Isidro) Ungab. Draft lang siya. Hindi ko naman nilabas kaagad.  So I called up his office. “May Saro (special allotment release order) po ba kayo ng ganito po …” Sabi niya may Saro ganiyan. EPMI ba? Hindi … AFPMI … Deng …

Napoles: Ano ’yung AFPMI?

Cabacungan: ’Yung NGO (nongovernment organization) na sinasabi nina Benhur.

Napoles: Ah, so … ’yun …

Cabacungan: OK. So ’yun … tapos may second po …

Napoles: Sige po …

Cabacungan: Sabi ng staff niya, mayroon pa kami isa, KPMI, iba po ’yun. So chineck ko … so, ’yun lang po ang istorya ko. The next day, kinonfirm nila na ia-accredit daw po ’yung mga NGOs sa Agri. So, tinanong ko po si (Agriculture Secretary Proceso) Alcala. Hindi ko na ho kailangan itanong sa inyo kasi hindi na po sa inyo ’yung issue.

Napoles: Opo, hindi na sa amin ’yun.

Cabacungan: So … ine-explain ko lang po sa inyo ’yung track, ’yung velocity, ’yung movement ng story natin. So, na-confirm na po. The next day naman, sinabi ni Merlina na ’yung source n’yo daw po doon ay si Ms. Agawin (Ophelia Agawin), so tinanong ko si Secretary Alcala kung kilala niya si Agawin … nagde-deny-deny pa siya. Ang sabi, secretary finance lang siya. Secretary finance lang. Hindi ko ’yan kilala. So the next day, nag-research na naman kami. Agawin turned out to be the one who was … the accountant of the original fertilizer scam …  No. 1. Tapos, Agawin was promoted by Alcala. A week later, what did P-Noy do … So, na-force po si Alcala to suspend Agawin. Pinagalitan po si (Budget Secretary Butch) Abad tsaka si Alcala. Hanggang ngayon pinagagalitan pa rin si Alcala, bakit mo pinalusot ’to. So ma’am, iba na ’yung issue eh. Hindi na po sa inyo, eh. Kung hihintayin po naming ’yung sagot n’yo, kung hindi kami gagalaw … public interest in faith …

Napoles: Wala akong pakialam doon sa … doon sa … ’yung kina … ano … Ungab. Karapatan n’yo po ’yun, ma-dig ang fertilizer scam. Actually, ’yun nga ’yung misyon namin ni Lorna (Atty. Lorna Kapunan) eh. Kaya kami nagsasama … Who is behind this, ano … ’di ba. Kaya kami nagkakasundong dalawa. Pero ’yung Ungab na sinabi n’yo … ’yung … kasi ho may letter na ilalabas namin ’yon. Lahat ho ’yan, nakalagay dun sa handwritten ni Benhur kung sino lahat ’yung kliyente niya. Kaya lahat po ng nilalabas niya … puro kliyente niya … hindi namin mailabas. Kahit maibigay sa inyo, Inquirer, kasi ilalabas namin ’yan pag nag-inquiry na. Senate inquiry or sa House inquiry, dun ilalabas.

Cabacungan: Pero, ma’am, desisyon n’yo po ’yan na hindi sabihin sa amin. So hindi n’yo po puwedeng diktahan na hindi kami … [Unintelligible]

Napoles: Hindi ko naman … ’yung mga below the belt lang pag binabasa ko.

Carvajal: Ma’am, ano ho ba yung below the belt?

Cabacungan: Ma’am, ’eto yung, ’eto ’yung example. ’Yung Monday na story na sinasabi n’yong hindi ako tumawag, Sunday, tumawag ako. Tinext ko si Ma’am Lorna. Wala naman kaming away, kinakausap ko siya before … Sabi niya, I don’t trust you. Eh ’di nilagay ko sa istorya … tapos nilagay ko ’yung letter n’yo kay P-Noy, so good faith ’yun. The next day, nagtatatalak na siya. Sinabi niya …

Napoles: Ah, sabi niya, sino po ’yung nagsabi na ano na hawak namin ’yung gobyerno … parang may nagsulat ng ganun.

Carvajal: Ako ’yun…

Napoles: Eh hindi naman.

Nolasco: Pero hindi n’yo sinabi ’yun? Hindi n’yo sinabihan yung mga NBI (National Bureau of Investigation) …

Napoles: Ay, sir…

Unidentified voice: Mga senators …

Nolasco: Hindi n’yo sinabi na ‘kami ang gobyerno’?

Napoles: Kami? Alam n’yo po, sa totoo lang, sir …

Carvajal: It was the NBI who told me …

Napoles: Kasi, sir, sabi ni Attorney (Levi) Baligod nung, ’di ba, hinuli brother ko, Friday. Nung Saturday, nakikipagkita siya sa amin, humihingi ng pera. Sabi niya nakita niya napahuli namin kayo without a warrant. Ganito kalakas ’to. So sinabi niya sinu-sino contact niya … so natakot kami, ’di ba, maglalabas ba kami, kidnap ba ’to na parang ano … So, sabi namin, sinong lalapitan natin … DOJ nanghuli sa atin tsaka NBI. Sabi niya, ’eto, ’eto, may order. That’s the reason na sumulat kami sa Malacañang para kahit papano maimbestigahan ’yung NBI.

Winnie Monsod/Columnist: Baligod is the attorney of Benhur …

Napoles: Opo.

Napoles: ’Pag kinausap niya po ako, andami niya sinabing hinanakit sa politiko. Isa lang po ang sinabi ko, tita. Anong pakialam ko … Eh ’di sabi ko, eh ’di sila habulin mo, bakit ako? Sabi niya, wala, gagamitin kita. ’Pag hindi ka nagbigay, sisirain kita. So, ito na ’yun.

Monsod: So, you are accusing Baligod of extorting money…

Napoles: Opo. Nag-file po ako ng disbarment sa kanya.

Monsod: Magkano ’yung hinihingi niya sa ’yo?

Napoles: Nung una, maliit lang. Nung una, over the weekend, produce P38 million.

Monsod: P38 million? That’s what he asked you?

Napoles: Opo. Maliit lang daw para sa kanya daw ’yun. Sabi niya maliit lang ’to, ah. May tape po ako, naka-record po ’yun.

Nolasco: O, Lets (Letty Jimenez-Magsanoc, editor in chief), ikaw lang hinihintay ng star witness natin.

Napoles: Ay … star witness, grabe naman. Ayokong star witness, mahirap mag-ano … P38 million po over the weekend. Sabi niya before Easter Sunday kailangan ilabas, so …

Monsod: Eh, ano ang … anong threat niya sa ’yo kung ’di ka maglalabas…

Napoles: Over the weekend, sabi niya ’pag nagbigay kami ng P38 million, hindi na nila itutuloy ’yung demanda sa brother ko ng illegal detention. Sabi ko, hindi naman totoo ’yan. We have the witness, mga priests, na nag-retreat naman talaga. So sabi niya, eh ano, group daw sila. So ako po, sabi ko, baka naman ’yung abogado ko lang tsaka siya. So sabi ko, kakausapin ko. Nung kinausap ko na, ang dami nang demands. Mayroon nang dollar, may US visa. Sabi ko, “Ho? Andami.” Sabi kasi, alam daw niya ’yung minana ko sa magulang ko. Alam daw niya ’yung kinita sa coal namin. Alam niya ’yung sa housing. Ang dami niyang alam, so tinape ko rin po ’yun. Sabi niya, ’pag ’di ko raw po binigay, dudurugin daw niya ang pangalan namin.

Carvajal: Akala ko P300 million?

Napoles: Oo, lahat na P300 million total para mabuo ’yung …

Monsod: So, this is all on tape?

Napoles: Opo. Kaysa daw kukuha-kuha pa ako ng visa, P300 million na lang. Pero I said that sa interview po.

Randy David/Columnist: What you’re saying is that all of the NGOs na nakadugtong sa mga senador at congressmen, ’eto lahat ay negosyo nitong si Benhur?

Napoles: Mayroon po siyang boss …

David: Wala kayong kinalaman. Sinong boss ni Benhur?

Cabacungan: Can we start on that?

Napoles: Ah, hindi ho. Tsaka na po, lalabas naman po.

David: Hindi kayo ang boss niya?

Napoles: Hindi po.

Nolasco: Magandang banner ’yun.

Napoles: Hindi na po. Saka na lang.

Carvajal: Pero parehong empleyado n’yo po sila, ma’am. In fact, si …

Napoles: Isa lang po ang empleyado ko. Si Benhur. Si Marina Sula po nag-file sa labor na empleyado ko siya. Natalo po siya.

Carvajal: Yes, mayroon.

Napoles: May decision na po.

Carvajal: Kasi kung hindi n’yo siya empleyado, bakit sinagot po ng abogado ninyo ’yung labor case na finile nya?

Napoles: Eh, natural, sasagutin, lalagay mo dun. Hindi puwedeng hindi mo sasagutin, tita. You cannot ignore that. Kailangan sasagutin.

Carvajal: Exactly. In-acknowledge n’yo na empleyado n’yo siya.

Napoles: Hindi ho. Mali. Dapat sasagutin …

Carvajal: It’s there na … we have all the …

Napoles: Sinagot po namin na hindi naming siya empleyado. I-co-confirm mo na hindi namin empleyado. Binigyan ng ebidensya, nanalo po kami.

Letty Jimenez-Magsanoc/Editor in chief: She’s also known as Baby Sula, ’di ba?

Napoles: Pardon me?

Carvajal: No, it’s different.

Magsanoc: It’s different?

Napoles: Bakit po? [Shakes head]

Magsanoc: Siya ’yung nakasulat na nag-a-accept ng … [unintelligible) letters of the 44 mayors nakatatak JLN Corporation/Baby Sula.

Formoso: Sino si Baby Sula?

Napoles: Wala po. Wala pong Baby Sula sa amin.

Magsanoc: But I thought she’s …

Carvajal: One of the … one of the …

Napoles: Pero si Marina Sula po …

Magsanoc: Accepts …

Carvajal: [Unintelligible] Marina Sula …

Magsanoc: Her nickname is Baby Sula, yeah …

Napoles: Hiningan siya ng labor. Si Helen po, si Helen … hiningan po siya ng mga SSS na show evidence, wala po, natalo.

Monsod: Wala siyang nabigay?

Napoles: Wala po … sabi niya empleyado po ako so hiningan po siya sa labor nung nag … ‘Di ba mag-he-hearing muna ganoon. So naglabas na po ng desisyon.

Monsod: Naglabas na ng desisyon?

Carvajal: Na ano po ’yung desisyon, ma’am?

Napoles: Na hindi talaga siya empleyado.

Carvajal: ’Yun po ang desisyon?

David: So alam ninyo yung …

Napoles: Opo, lumabas na … puwede n’yo po … Sa ’kin mamaya, hindi ko … [Unintelligible]

Monsod: So in your version …

Napoles: Yes, please.

Monsod: The one who was involved in the … is Benhur and is working for somebody, ganun ba?

Napoles: Opo … oho.

Male voice: So hindi kayo …

Monsod: You know who the person is …

Napoles: Yeah, but it’s …

Monsod: But you will not tell us …

Napoles: [Shakes head] At the proper …

Monsod: Until the due process, you cannot tell us a little.

Napoles: [Laughs out loud] Basta babae po siya.

Magsanoc: Was she also working with you?

Napoles: [Shakes head] No … who?

Crowd: Benhur.

Napoles: Opo, Benhur …

Magsanoc: So, why was he …

Napoles: Pardon, tita?

Magsanoc: So, why was he with another boss?

Napoles: Eh, tita, kasi ’yung trabaho lang naman ni Benhur sa akin parang alalay, ’di ba. Parang alalay, hindi naman sa office ’yung working for ano … Parang ngayon, ’yung secretary ko nasa baba, so … Tsaka nagtatrabaho siya sa amin parang Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Kasi Friday, Saturday, nag-a-ano siya … neocatechist kuno … [Gestures with her hands]

(To be continued Wednesday)

 

FIRST PART OF THE INTERVIEW

“Janet Napoles takes the floor at Inquirer”

SECOND PART OF THE INTERVIEW

“Napoles insists her money came from inheritance, coal trading”

FOURTH PART OF THE INTERVIEW

Napoles won’t say name of her firm in Indonesia

LAST PART OF THE INTERVIEW

Napoles: Benhur Luy has another boss, it is not me


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Tags: Janet Lim Napoles , Levi Baligod , Philippines , pork barrel scam




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