Secret oaths, chants in ritual to choose Pope

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VATICAN CITY—It’s a ritual as rich in tradition and symbolism as the Catholic Church can muster: secret oaths, hypnotic Gregorian chants, scarlet-decked cardinals filing through the Sistine Chapel—all while the public outside in St. Peter’s Square watches for white smoke or black to learn if it has a new Pope.

Much of the ritual’s current incarnation is the work of Archbishop Piero Marini.

The Vatican’s master of liturgical celebrations for two decades under Pope John Paul II, Marini organized the funeral rites for the late Pontiff and the conclave that elected Pope Benedict XVI. He was by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger’s side minutes after the election when the new Pope uttered the words “I accept”—officially launching his papacy on April 19, 2005.

“I still remember, with some emotion, the silence that there was—the participation of the cardinals,” Marini recalled in an interview in his Vatican offices. “It was an event that had been prepared with great care.”

Next month’s conclave to elect the 266th leader of the world’s billion Catholics will have all the grand trappings of papal elections past—with the added twist that this time around the current Pope is still alive.

Benedict’s resignation, the first papal abdication in 600 years, has caused chaos in the Vatican: Nobody knows for sure what he’ll be called much less what he’ll wear after Feb. 28.

But one thing is clear: The rules and rituals to elect his successor will follow Marini’s “bible” of how to run a conclave—a dense tome of footnoted decrees, floor plans, directions and photos. The book will serve as a guide when 117 cardinals gather in the Sistine Chapel to elect Benedict’s successor.

The Vatican said on Saturday that the Holy See in the coming days or weeks would publish an update to the main apostolic constitution that guides the papal transition with some ceremonial tweaks, perhaps taking into account the influence of Benedict’s more tradition-minded master of liturgical ceremonies who replaced Marini in 2007. But the fundamentals will likely remain.

Vow of secrecy

The conclave begins with the cardinals in their red cassocks filing into the Sistine Chapel, chanting the monophonic Litany of Saints followed by another sacred song, “Veni, Creator Spiritus,” imploring the intervention of the Holy Spirit and saints as they take their places before Michelangelo’s “Last Judgment.”

The cardinals place their hand on the Gospel and promise to observe absolute secrecy both during and after the conclave, and to “never lend support or favor to any interference, opposition or any other form of intervention … in the election of the Roman Pontiff.”

While the Vatican is notoriously obsessed with secrecy, there are actually good historical reasons why conclave proceedings are kept quiet and why cardinals promise to vote independently, said Msgr. Robert Wister, professor of Church history at Seton Hall University in New Jersey.

Up until the early 20th century, papal elections could be vetoed by the kings of France, Spain or the Holy Roman Emperor, Wister noted. The power was rarely invoked but was used in the 1903 conclave to replace Pope Leo XII. Leo’s No. 2, the Vatican’s secretary of state, was in the lead when his election was blocked by Austrian Emperor Francis Joseph.

The eventual winner, Giuseppe Melchiorre Sarto, took the name Pius X—and promptly abolished the veto power. Still, the memory of outside intervention has continued to weigh over the College of Cardinals, leading them to be sequestered until they have a Pope.

Now they have a Vatican hotel to stay in while not voting, but are forbidden from having any contact with the outside world: no phones, no newspapers, no tweeting.

“There is that fear,” Wister said. “Going back previous centuries, kings did interfere, sometimes with an army.”

Ineligible cardinals

Secrecy under penalty of excommunication also ensures that the winner doesn’t know who among his cardinals voted against him—an important element going forward to keep the Church’s top leadership unified.

“It’s not the Renaissance where he’d be poisoned, but it’s a matter of human respect,” Wister said.

Once the final oath is taken, the master of liturgical ceremonies gives the order “Extra omnes” (everyone out) and all those not taking part in the conclave leave the frescoed walls of the chapel.

An elderly cardinal, over age 80 and thus ineligible to participate, remains and reads a meditation about the qualities a Pope should have and the challenges facing the Church, after which he and the master of ceremonies leave the cardinals to begin voting.

On Day 1, only one round of balloting is taken; after that cardinals cast two votes in the morning, two in the afternoon until they have a victor. A two-thirds majority is necessary.

Each cardinal writes his choice on a paper inscribed with the words “Eligo in summen pontificem,” or “I elect as Supreme Pontiff.” They approach the altar one by one and say: “I call as my witness, Christ the Lord who will be my judge, that my vote is given to the one who, before God, I think should be elected.”

The folded ballot is placed on a round plate and slid into an oval urn. After the votes are counted and the outcomes announced, the papers are bound together with a needle and thread, each ballot pierced through the word “Eligo.”

Then they are burned with a chemical to send black smoke (meaning no) or white (meaning yes) out of the Sistine Chapel’s chimney.

All too human 

On April 19, 2005, a stunned Ratzinger accepted the charge and was brought into a side room to change into the white vestments of the papacy. Off came the scarlet cassock; underneath was the simpler black clerical garb of a cardinal.

“Naturally the Pope couldn’t change completely at that moment, so he went out with those black sleeves—we could see his sweater!” Marini recalled. “But even that was a human gesture of how he was dressed as a cardinal.”

Marini accompanied Ratzinger out onto the loggia of the basilica overlooking St. Peter’s Square where a cardinal announced “Habemus Papam” (We have a Pope) to the thousands of people below.

The cardinal announced Ratzinger’s name in Latin, and then Benedict uttered his first public words as Pope, saying he was but a “simple, humble worker in the vineyard of the Lord.”

Marini noted that that first encounter of the new Pope with his flock traces its history to the ancient tradition that the bishop of Rome is elected by the people.

“This appearance by the Pope on the balcony, the applause and cheers of joy that erupt when he comes out,” he said, “in some way represents the Roman people accepting their Pope.”

It’s one of the potent symbols of a tradition-drenched conclave.

“A religion relies on its customs and practices,” said Msgr. Kevin Irwin, former dean of theology at Catholic University of America and professor of liturgy. “This is not like putting up posters and getting a poll of who is winning. This is an act of God.”

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  • UrHONOR

    >>>VATICAN CITY—It’s a ritual as rich in tradition and symbolism as the Catholic Church can muster: secret oaths, hypnotic Gregorian chants, scarlet-decked cardinals filing through the Sistine Chapel—all while the public outside in St. Peter’s Square watches for white smoke or black to learn if it has a new Pope.<<<
    SYMBOLISM…that's what it's ALL about…pagbobongga para makasindak at maka-aliw sa manonood na patay-na-patay makakita ng PALABAS na en grande, pero walang kaugnayan o kinalaman sa kanilang buhay at kabuhayan.  Bagkus, pangpabigat at sagabal sa paggaygay sa daan tungo sa kaunlaran.

    • henri_see

      Meanwhile, gumagastos ka sa pagbobongga ni Lady Gaga.

      • UrHONOR

        Ingaw imik sasalita si lady gaga paleho sa simahan?  Wakanga….ano isip sa iyo kabise, isip belekoy? 

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/SPLUBLEOSERDBOIJTDOC6XIWGU mxsclxmxn

        Stupid comment! Non-sense like your empty coconut head!

      • UrHONOR

        BABALIK ko sana ang pagka-salat mo sa mabuting kaisipan, pero napagtanto ko na kaTOLik ka, e, pagbibigyan ko na lang yang TNL na mga letrang yan na tanda ng kawalang-isip, at hindi ko na papatulan pa.  Magpakabait ka, itoy, dahil yan na lang ang natitirang maaari mong gawin sa buhay mo.

      • Crazy_horse101010

        thats the kettle calling the pot black. costra nostra XXXXXXXXXXXXX

  • brunogiordano

    Sa mga nais malaman ang kasaysayan ng mga POPE, i-google ninyo ang kasaysayan ng mga pope,

    From Pope Alexander VI to Pope John XXIII, the history of the papacy is a succession of scoundrels and saints.

  • $37644997

    ‘A religion relies on it’s customs and practices,this is not like putting up posters and getting a pole
    of who is winning’.
    The type of rituals that you have can be very obsolete.Seek and ye shall find other rituals that are of God and be satisfied.”This is an act of God”.

  • barok

    hmmm…marami na naman naiinggit. don’t worry meron gamot dyan…

    • UrHONOR

      MAYROON ba namang dapat na kainggitan….yon bang mga seremonyang pang-bongga o yong mga uniporme ng mga TNL na naghihingalong bisyap at kardinal o ordinal ng simbahan?  O yong nag-resign na center nf Vatican Team dahil hindi na nya masuheto ang mga nagdadambahang mga TNL na nakasayang-puti sa pag-molestiya ng mga bata at sa pagkupit sa koleksiyon….yan ba ang ka-i-inggitan….o pagtawanan?  PSHAW!!!

      • barok

        kung walang dapat kaiinggitan, dapat wala ring ikapuna…bakit ba kayo nakikisawsaw, bakit ba kayo puna ng puna? sa ginagawa nyo, nagmumukha lang kayong mga inggitero’t inggitira, kayo ang mga nagmumukhang katawatawa.

      • UrHONOR

        SASABIHIN ko sanang naaaaapakahina mong mag-isip at ikaw ang inggit-na-iggit sa kaisipan ng iba na marunong mag-isip at magpuna, PERO hindi ko gagawin yon dahil hahanay lamang ako sa antas ng kokote mo.

        So, Barok, pag pinunaan kang mababaw ang iyong kaisipan sa pagsuri, NAIINGIT yong pumupuna sa iyo sa kababawan ng kaisipan mo, tama po ba, Sr Barok?

        At para hindi ka na mamilipit pa sa susunod, KAHIT NA SINO AY MAAARING PUMUNA SA KAHIT NA ANO O SA KAHIT NA SINUPAMAN within bounds.  At kung yan ay hindi mo kayang lunukin, may kasabihang, “if you can’t stand the heat in the kitchen, GET the phack OUT”.  Sa Tagalog- huwag ka sanang pikon, mangatwiran ka! :)

      • barok

        baka naman ikaw yung pikon at gumagamit ka na ng “CAPS”. O sige na nga pagbibigyan na kita na punahin ang kung ano man meron ang mga katoliko na wala kayo kung yun ay ikagagaan ng iyong damdamin.
        Pero uulitulitin ko para naman di tayo lumayo sa pinaguusapan at di na mapunta sa kusina o kubeta…bakit ba pinangingialaman nyo kung ano man merong pananampalataya kaming mga katoliko? di ba pwedeng tumahimik na lang at wag nang ‘epal’? at bakit ka apektado nang sabihin kong marami na namang naiinggit, isa ka ba dun? kung sabagay ikanga…ang pumutak iyon yung nangitlog :p

      • UrHONOR

        MALAKI ang palagay ko na kakailan ka lang naka-tipa sa ‘puter.  WALANG KINALAMAN ang BIG CAPS sa pagka-pikon….unless, you know, in fairness, sa totoo lang, e, hindi ka pa naglaladlad.

        At hindi ko na UULITIN pa sa iyo dahil kahulihulihan ko na ito sa username mo, WALA AKONG PAKI-ALAM sa kung anuman ang pananampalataya mo at WALA KA DING PAKI-ALAM sa pananampalataya ng mga katoliko o kaTOLiko na tulad mo dahil WALANG DAPAT NA NAKIKI-ALAM SA PANANAMPALATAYA ng KAHIT na SUNUPAMAN….kahit na yang mga damukal ng mga damasong sinasamba mo, WALANG PAKI-ALAM ang mga YAN SA PANANAMPALATAYA ng KAHIT SINUMAN.  Ang pananampalataya, dahil hindi mo alam, ay isang personal na gawain na namamagitan sa nanampalataya at pinanampalatayaan……kaisipan, rebulto, kalikasan, o kung anupaman.  N/C yan para sa iyo.

        At kahulihulihan, yang kaisipan mong INGGIT ay naghahari lamang sa kokote mong selosa, alanganin, at mapag-suspetsa.  WALANG DAPAT na kainggitan sa iyo o sa kung anupamang meron kang tinatago sa kahit saan pa man.

        Ite misa est.  Vade in pace. 

      • barok

        Iwas pusoy ka talaga, sa tulad mong mapaghusga kala mo magaling ka na. Di mo masagot ang tanong ko, simple lang naman ba’t mo pa pinaiikot-ikot…Nabubulol ka na sa mga sagot pati sarli mo malamang hilo. Saka di naman ako ang pinag-uusapan dito kundi ang simbahan katolika.
        Sa palagay hindi lang inggit meron ka, galit at pagkamuhi sa mga katoliko. Tingnan mo ang mga posting mo. Isang tanong ulit ang iiwanan ko sa yo, ano ba ang nagawa ng mga katoliko sa yo at ganun na lang yang nararamdaman mo?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GURBWYA3AIXC22EF6E6HIHRNQE Ornbort Vortingeresdemesus

    a religion relies on faith, not customs and practices. ;) anyway i still remember that before we were taught that they would put the names in a fire and if white smoke came out, that was how a pope was chosen…

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GURBWYA3AIXC22EF6E6HIHRNQE Ornbort Vortingeresdemesus

      There is a God. It’s just that we can’t define him so we try our best through pomp and ceremony, always forgetting that he chose the form of a builder or carpenter, and his best friends liked to fish. 

      • Hfxwst

        No mistake Catholics use pomp and ceremony – other christian religions do not need it.

      • brunogiordano

        “There is a God.”

        THERE ARE GODS.

        Lahat LIKHA ng mga TAO at sangkatutak na and counting.

        Hanggang sa oras na ito wala pang GOD na napapatunayan TOTOO.

      • po6is777

        There is only ONE TRUE GOD, the creator and master of all things visible and invisible including your invisible ‘free-thinking’. You may think that these gods ay likha lang ng tao but most of them probably referred to this ONE TRUE God magkakaiba lang ng PAGKAKAUNAWA sa ‘misteryo’ nitong ONE TRUE GOD and I think this was because of PRIDE as in the case of 35,000+ different Protestant churches and denominations reinventing their understanding of this ONE TRUE GOD against the original understanding of the Catholic Church. Because of these different understandings of God, nevertheless, it does not prove that there is none ONE TRUE GOD. 

        For you my friend, in your declaration na wala pang God na napapatunayan, the bible has the answer, in Jn 14:17 it says this: “the Spirit of Truth (TRUTH is GOD) which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it”. Paanong mapapatunayan ng MUNDO na may Diyos ni hindi niya nga Tinatanggap ang KATOTOHANANG ITO dahil hindi ito NAKIKITA O NAUUNAWAAN NG MUNDO na gaya ng makamundong pag-iisip mo.

      • brunogiordano

        Irrational explanation.

        Not based on facts but lots of FAIRY TALES.

        Try giving rational proof.

        FAITH is irrational and unacceptable proof.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GURBWYA3AIXC22EF6E6HIHRNQE Ornbort Vortingeresdemesus

        ok just wait. cheers. 

    • brunogiordano

      “a religion relies on faith, ”

      Gamit ng mga SCAMMERS sa pangloloko ng mga SUCKERS na tao.

  • henri_see

    Don’t worry for the cardinals. 
    They’ve been doing this for 2,000 years.
    This new Pope would be No. 267. St. Peter was No. 1.
    Love ‘em or envy ‘em, you can’t frickin affect ‘em.

  • Hfxwst

    Reuters is reporting there may be some fall out for the pope once he abdicates – he was the head of a sovereign government hiding sexual abuse – as well, Cardinals in other countries may be forced to answer charges.   

  • Magsasaka

    hindi ba ang mga ritwal ay gawain ng mga demonyo?

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/SPLUBLEOSERDBOIJTDOC6XIWGU mxsclxmxn

      DEMONYO BUMALIK KA SA IMPIERNO!

      • Magsasaka

        nasusulat ang mga gumagaya kay kristo ay mga kampon ni taning

      • Sandy Bulet

        Pwede bang malaman kung saan mo yan nabasa?

      • Magsasaka

        sa bibliya, alangan namang sa pambalot ng tinapa

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/SPLUBLEOSERDBOIJTDOC6XIWGU mxsclxmxn

        siempre sa demonyong pastor nila!

      • barok

         hahaha, as in demonyo talaga :)

      • Crazy_horse101010

        im jealous i thought i was your demon now you cast me off for another

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/SPLUBLEOSERDBOIJTDOC6XIWGU mxsclxmxn

        DEMONYO BUMALIK KA SA IMPIERNO!

      • Crazy_horse101010

        love you to sweetheart

      • Magsasaka

        anak ng pari hehehe, nanay mo madre, isang bunga ng karumdal dumal na pagkakasala

      • Platypus09

        But you are not an angel either.

        The way you say things, you are a devil.

        You sound like a devil to me who belongs to what you call hell..,

        You should go there first.

    • xrisp

      Kapatid, huwag nating sayangin ang biyaya ng buhay. Walang huli para sa Dios upang magbago.

      • Magsasaka

        sayang buhay mo nabubuhay ka sa kasinungalingan

      • xrisp

        Ang kasinungalingan kapatid ay ang mabuhay ka ng hindi makawala sa tanikala ng kasamaan na ninanais ng ating kalaban na ating yakapin. Huwag tayong mag paalipin sa ating kalaban na walang layunin kundi ang wasakin ang ating pagkatao sa dahilang nais nya na maraming mawasak na kaululuwa. Buhay panalangin ang makakapagbago sa atin kapatid.

      • Magsasaka

        anong kasamaan pinagsasabi mo,hindi ba napakasama ang mabuhay ka sa kasinungalingan

      • boldyak

        mas mahirap na mabuhay sa inggit…

      • Magsasaka

        may dapat kaingitan sa isang institusyon na puno ng kasinungalingan?mangmang hehehe

    • Handiong

      KKK antonioluna. I suppose KKK means Kataas-taasan, Kagalang-galangan, Katipunan. Ang Katipunan ay meron ding mga ritwal – kandila na nakatayo sa bungo, pagpirma na gamit ang sariling dugo. Ibig mo bang sabihin ang Katipunan ay para sa demonyo?

      • Magsasaka

        ibalik natin ang tanong sa iyo, ang KKK ba ay relihiyon?
        ang layo ng analogy mo

      • Handiong

        Rituals are rituals in whatever aspect of human life. Rituals originated from man’s “religious instincts” when he intuited that there is a power greater than himself that he had to worship, venerate, or appease. This sense of something greater than man is carried over in man’s other endeavors, such as the secret society of the Katipunan, where rituals assumed a pseudo-religious connotation, in which the “greater power” was the Motherland.

        Of course, those who believe that Satan is their “greater power” have their own kind of rituals.

      • Magsasaka

        i agree but rituals in the likes of KKK were just initiation it’s different from satanic or religious rituals

      • Handiong

        So, don’t generally say that “ang mga ritwal ay gawain ng  mga demonyo”. 

      • poltergeist_fuhrer

        nice one…na corner mo parekoy…

      • reddfrog

         In a religious context – yes – gawain ng demonyo.

      • boldyak

        inggit lang kayo…bwahahaha

      • Magsasaka

        ganoon mag isip ng mga tanga hehehe, kahit walang relasyon sa topic ay pilit na isisiksik, irrelevant nyahahaha

      • Handiong

        Ikaw nag-umpisa, b-o-b-o.

      • Magsasaka

        are you referring to yourself hehehe

      • boldyak

        nagtatanong ka kung ang ritwal ay gawa ng demonyo, daming ritual…engot ka, palitan mo nga yang name mo, iniinsulto mo ang bayani…

      • Magsasaka

        mas bobo at tanga ka dahil kung marunong kang magisip ay nakapatungkol iyan sa ritwal sa relihiyon, mag aral ka ulit ang tanda mo na mangmang ka pa rin

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GURBWYA3AIXC22EF6E6HIHRNQE Ornbort Vortingeresdemesus

        troll alert. 

    • boldyak

      bago ka pumasok sa trabaho, may ritual kang ginagawa sa umaga…gawa din ba yan ng demonyo?

      • Magsasaka

        ritwal ang tawag mo doon nyahahaha mangmang ka talaga

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GURBWYA3AIXC22EF6E6HIHRNQE Ornbort Vortingeresdemesus

        stop feeding this troll.

      • Magsasaka

        ako troll, tingnan mo nga kung ilan ang posts ko kumpara sa posts mo hehehe

  • xrisp

    Regardless of religion, one should examine himself what his religion has done to him. His religion must not just inform him but most importantly transform him. God will not look even if one has memorized the whole Bible. God looks into the hearts of men. Have you already have a change of heart? For what comes from the mouth comes from the heart.

    • brunogiordano

      “Regardless of religion, one should examine himself what his religion has done to him.”

      Marami na ang gumawa niyan.

      Ang sagot WALA. Sa kabila ng maraming pera na inabuloy nila sa kanikanilang RELIGION.

      Kaya karamihan sa kanila ay tumiwalag na sa kanikanilang RELIGION at WALA ng RELIGION na sinapian.

      Ang tawag sa kanila ay NONES – RELIGIOUSLY UNAFFILIATED.

      • Platypus09

        Catholicism has done good things to our lives for centuries, and you will not be here in this world if it did not advocate for world peace as people tried to grab other centuries inciting wars left and right.

        It had done behind the scenes maneuvers with leaders around the world just to keep peace and order.

        No matter what rituals it has, it is still a good thing.

        People don’t realize that. It is time to give credit to whom and where it is due.

    • reddfrog

      Religion is an invention of man using occults and fairy tales to scare the gullible into toeing the line. If you can’t see that by now then you’re hopeless.

      • boldyak

        it’s you who are hopeless, living just to criticize others…get a life….

  • http://www.facebook.com/gerry.mendez.923 Gerry Mendez

    here we are, cardinals espousing transparency in political and economic dealings all engaged in secret rituals and chants they dont want their flocks to know.  i dont see how utmost secrecy can help in selecting the best available catholic to lead the but it certainly is a good system for catholic power brokers.  No wonder europeans lord it over the vatican even if latino, asian and african catholic far outnumber them. this is fairness vatical style

    • reddfrog

       As usual, hypocrisy as practiced by the masters in Rome.

      • Platypus09

        Like there is no hypocrisy in your religion.

        Look at the mirror, you and your religion have flaws too.

        If your religion is no better than Catholicism, then why say mean things just to disrespect something that most people are being proud of?

        Your behavior and bad comments reflect the kind of religion you are affiliated with. Yours does not sound better either just by listening to you and disrespectfulness to Catholicism.

      • boldyak

        inggit lang kayo…

  • marionics

    wtfc?

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/Q63DUTCNJJKCYNURT4A4C6QZJM marco

    God bless all the cardinals as they go through another tough job..

  • Horst Manure

    Just another cross dressing Boss of child rapists  .

    • reddfrog

       I wonder how they pee… sitting down perhaps?

  • shane oy

    bakit di natin hayaan maniwala ang sinuman sa gusto nilang paniwalaan? bakit kailangan pang magbanggit ng mga salitang di kaakit akit para lang maiparating ang iyong hinanakit?

    Can we just go along? nobody among us “humans” has the monopoly of knowledge after all. You have a choice not to believe a single word i write. dump it, trash it whatever.

    Even truth. Truth is something relative to each and everyone. My truth is different from your truth.
    How could you say that your truth is better than my truth>? dahil ba may Ph D ka? O dahil feeling mo lang? o dahil yun ang tingin mo basi sa ebedensya mo? ei panu naman yung ebedensya ng iba? tinging mo ikaw lang ba ang tama? 

  • TinimbangNgunitKulang

    All those rituals are just a bunch of mumbo jumbos. Makes one wonder who their real god and master is. Rituals are for the occults. Does Jesus have a need for them?

    • reddfrog

       They need the song and dance number to awe the gullible masses, like the Wizard in Oz. When you strip off the “mumbo jumbos”, they have nothing of substance or relevance.

      • Platypus09

        Most of the non-Catholic religions don’t have substance either.

        They just listen to how their pastors interpret the holy scriptures.

        So what is the difference?

        Nothing.

        Nada..

      • boldyak

        inggit lang kayo, tingnan nyo pastor nyo, paiyak iyak pa sa harap ng camera…

    • Platypus09

      I prefer to have rituals than be in a religion that just goes with whatever liberated interpretations of the scriptures, meaning no guidance.

      You are not the only ones who criticized the Catholic religion. You and those who said similar things centuries ago, but where they are now? They are gone too.

      Does saying those things going to make a difference or is gonna make your religious affiliation and you as a person better? Not necessarily.

      But the Catholic religion remains as it is until now with billions of followers.

      “Whatever goes” kind of religion does not sound like religion, much so just a bunch of like you said mumbo jumbo kinds of bs of a liberated religion.

      I still prefer Catholicism than mumbo jumbo kind of “whatever goes” kind of religion.

    • boldyak

      it’s not your concern, just do your pray overs… pray overs for your poilitical candidates who say they were commanded by God to run…unfortunately your pray overs don’t work…

      • http://www.facebook.com/estee.muri Estee Muri

        Boldyak, Te,he,he,he. Parang narinig ko na iyan sa isang  Justice  during the  flag raising ceremony  na Her being  on the  topmost  post  is   a gift  from God  or some sort  of that line. Halos  lahat  naman ng mga Politician sa Philippines, iyan ang sinasabi nila. Kakahiya ang mga walanghiya na nagsabi na KUNO  it  was the calling from GOD  for them to be being elected by the people.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Abdul-Rashid/100004367910013 Abdul Rashid

    True, they are just a lot of Mambu jumbo magic but the choice is already done. Truelly he is going to be the false prophet who will extend Satan’s power, he will even cause fire to come down from heaven as the scriptures have described.
    Our Lord Jesus Christ will reign forever for He is Lord of Lords and King of Kings. Glory in your name forever and ever.

    • http://www.facebook.com/estee.muri Estee Muri

       Abdul , I am confused with your  statements.First ,you mentioned about a false Prophet.Never was it said that the POPE is a prophet. He is   a leader of the  faithful, so your statement is a misnomer. How can  a faithful believer in the good Lord Jesus Christ , be  Satan’s  man ? What you are talking  is perchance  those  leaders from the  other  countries  who says that killing  Christians  is the way  . and there are 70 Virgins in heaven waiting for them. Those are the leader  who claimed to be the prophet and the people  just follow them blindly. I am sorry, but this is my Strongest opinion and nobody can  convince me I am wrong!

  • jgl414567

    I’ve read the history on the popes and there were quite many who are wanting in righteousness. I’ve watch the series on “the Borgias” and i was disgusted by the Borgia pope “Alexander V1 who acted like a mafia head!! What i’m trying to emphasize is that popes are not perfect because they are human beings no matter how saintly and therefore the doctrine of the popes infallibility is debatable.

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