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Deep rifts set up drawn-out papal vote—experts

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Pope Benedict XVI. AP

VATICAN CITY – What would appear at first glance to be a cakewalk for a staunch conservative, to follow in the footsteps of Pope Benedict XVI, will be anything but Vatican experts say.

Of the 117 cardinal electors, 67 were named by the outgoing pontiff, and the other 50 by his beloved predecessor and ideological soulmate John Paul II.

More than half of them are European including 28 Italians, which points strongly to a successor in the same mould as Benedict, who yearned for a rebirth of Christian faith on the Old Continent.

But the arithmetic is misleading, given the water that has flowed under the bridges of the Tiber since the 2005 conclave that elevated the Polish pope’s German protege after just four voting sessions.

The gaffes and scandals that came to characterise Benedict’s papacy, combined with unflattering comparisons between the introverted German and the charismatic Pole, have laid the foundations for divisions and dissent.

Benedict, who took office as the Roman Catholic Church appeared cut adrift, proved unable to quell public relations disasters, came up short in addressing an avalanche of scandals over child sex abuse by priests and made only modest progress in efforts to clean up the Vatican’s murky financial dealings.

But insiders have pointed to the “Vatileaks” scandal, in which the pope’s butler stole documents containing revelations about corruption and mismanagement that turned up in a tell-all book, as the last straw.

More than any of the other crises, Vatileaks underscored the cerebral Benedict’s failure to stamp his authority over the Curia, the Church’s secretive and powerful governing body dominated by feuding Italian clerics.

“The scandals that brought enormous pain to Benedict XVI had the effect of digging up divisions,” Franca Giansoldati wrote in the Rome daily Il Messaggero on Thursday.

A “wave of emotion” over the death of John Paul II speeded Benedict XVI’s election, she said, something that cannot be matched for someone who is simply retiring at the age of 85.

When they gather for the conclave in mid-March, the cardinals will be under pressure to choose a reformer, someone to fix the “central machinery” of the Curia, said Sandro Magister, a Vatican expert and staunch supporter of Benedict who writes for the Italian weekly L’Espresso.

“A great majority are in favour of a strong leader with a strong public presence and a capacity to govern,” Magister told AFP, noting that cardinals outside the Curia — most of them bishops in overseas dioceses — “will weigh very heavily in favour of reform”.

The 28 Italian cardinals are not the “compact group” that they once were, he added.

What is more, Benedict reinstated an old rule requiring a two-thirds majority to elect the next pope — or 78 of the 117 possible this time.

South African cardinal Wilfrid Fox Napier, who is among the handful dubbed “papabile” or possible successors, said the Church was in a state of “profound crisis” and needed a new pope to bring about “spiritual renewal”.

“The determining factor is he must have the wisdom and energy to confront the challenges that await the Church in every corner of the globe,” he told Italian daily La Stampa.

“Church institutions should help evangelisation, not slow it down,” he said. “People, and young people in particular, are waiting for words of truth from the Church.”

Magister, like many Vatican watchers, dismissed the chances of an African or Latin American rising to the top, predicting that the race would come down to Milan Archbishop Angelo Scola, 72, versus Marc Ouellet, the 67-year-old former archbishop of Quebec who heads the influential Congregation of Bishops.

London bookmaker Paddy Power makes Ouellet, described as “good pals” with Benedict, the frontrunner, with Scola as his main contender.

Meanwhile speculation is mounting over how the new pontiff will deal with Benedict’s future status as a former pope living out his years within the Vatican walls after he retires on February 28.

The pope’s decision to take up residency in a disused Vatican convent, which Magister described as “provocative”, sets up an unprecedented situation.

With the Vatican insisting he will be a paragon of discretion and Benedict saying that he will remain “hidden from the world”, others are not so sure.

Also adding to the intrigue was an announcement Thursday that Benedict’s closest confidant Georg Gaenswein will continue as his personal secretary while also overseeing the new pope’s household.

Benedict promoted Gaenswein to prefect of the papal household in December — a move interpreted now as a key part of his plans to resign.

Prominent German theologian Hans Kung warned that Benedict could become a “shadow pope”, telling the Italian daily La Repubblica: “I would have preferred for him to have chosen to retire into meditation and prayer in Bavaria. Contacts and conversations will be inevitable if he stays at the Vatican.”


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Tags: Catholic Church , News , Papacy , Pope Benedict XVI , Religion , Vatican


  • Pablo316

    Like I mentioned previously, it is also worth noting that Pope Benedict XVI openly calls for Roman Catholics to go back to their Bible, to read and understand its pure and unadulterated teachings, which he lamented is now terribly missing from a lot of people professing themselves to be Christians. I cannot say if this has been a factor in his renouncing his position.
     
    Nevertheless if we are to listen to what former Vatican insiders have been saying even before this event (the most famous of them might be former Jesuit priest Malachi Martin), that something dire is really happening inside the Vatican, something that even hardcore Roman Catholics may find it hard to believe – that is, Satanists are actively doing their works inside the very walls of the Vatican. And it seems that the chains of events that transpired through the years seem to lend credence to these disclosures.
     
    Roman Catholics themselves are largely ignorant of what is happening in Vatican, so it will be no surprise if some would react violently to the fact that Vatican is now poised to recognize ‘space brothers’ and to present extra-terrestrials (or aliens who in truth are nothing but demons posing as entities from another planet) as just another fellow Roman Catholics to be baptized. Those who dare to challenge this should do their research first and see what RCC leaders in Vatican’s astronomical observatory are now saying.
     
    Having said that, the best hope for God-fearing and God-seeking Roman Catholics is still to go back to the written words of God – the Bible; and so let me encourage them to do so that they may grow in the knowledge (that leads to salvation) and grace of the Lord Jesus Christ.
     
    God bless!

    • Crazy_horse101010

      i know there is a strong mafia influence their with some cardinals coming from maifia families, the way it works is the oldest son is usually a capo the younger son or sons become priests the priest protects the family and the family greases the wheels for the priest to rise high in the church look at the murder of john paul the first to see how powerful they are they are also involved with the vatican bank

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_HUI2BDWASRDEUWH4XSILXAEOFA Boie

        hearsay…

      • Crazy_horse101010

        go on the internet  ive even seen priests admit it on the history channel.  i have studied the mafia for years and its a fact but go to google and look at the maifia connection. what do you know about the mafia been around them

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/SPLUBLEOSERDBOIJTDOC6XIWGU mxsclxmxn

        DEMONYONG KABAYO BUMALIK KA SA IMPIERNO!

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_M6UL2UG4OGTMCLSYGB5MVJ7USE InSearchOfTruth

      just a question, kabayan.  when you say go back to the BIBLE, are you refering to the old or new testament or both?

      • Pablo316

        Both

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_M6UL2UG4OGTMCLSYGB5MVJ7USE InSearchOfTruth

        next question, if you please…

        do now acknowledge the laws written in both the old and the new testament as the laws of god?

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/SPLUBLEOSERDBOIJTDOC6XIWGU mxsclxmxn

        bible daw!

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/276L22SZM5ZUQGV24IL4ZEF6UA Edward

      purely hearsay..

      if nothing to say keep ur mouth shut pablo316…check ur facts..

      You merely twisted the facts and invented the history, Catholic hater…

    • ThudOthwacker

      “it is also worth noting that Pope Benedict XVI openly calls for Roman Catholics to go back to their Bible, to read and understand its pure and unadulterated teachings, which he lamented is now terribly missing from a lot of people professing themselves to be Christians. ” ~Pablo316

      There you go again with your fallacious observation.  Promoting your heretical and un-biblical understanding. Like I mentioned to you before. Scripture is not the sole source of inspiration. 
      Here are the following verses I have provided you before, That you branded as “out of context.”
      2 Thessalonians 2:15″Stand firm, then, brothers, and keep the traditions that we taught you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.”2 Thessalonians 3:6″In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we urge you, brothers, to keep away from any of the brothers who lives an undisciplined life, not in accordance with the tradition you received from us.”1 Corinthians 11:2″I congratulate you for remembering me so consistently and for maintaining the traditions exactly as I passed them on to you.”
      What is the common theme of it?”Traditions” ! Plus Word of GOD. Not scripture alone.Pope Benedict XVI calls for Catholic renewal through continuation of traditions and a call to teach, live and witness the Catholic faith. 

      “Satanists are actively doing their works inside the very walls of the Vatican.” ~Pablo316

      Unsubstantiated! Pure protestant hogwash.

      “Vatican is now poised to recognize ‘space brothers’ and to present extra-terrestrials (or aliens who in truth are nothing but demons posing as entities from another planet) as just another fellow Roman Catholics to be baptized. ” ~Pablo316

      LOL You are not far from the Pharisees position. 

      Galatians 3:28″There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither slave nor freeman, there can be neither male nor female — for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” the best hope for God-fearing and God-seeking Roman Catholics is still to go back to the written words of God – the Bible; and so let me encourage them to do so that they may grow in the knowledge (that leads to salvation) and grace of the Lord Jesus Christ.” ~Pablo316Your scriptural alone standpoint is un-biblical. The problem with you heretics. You don’t know the roots of protestantism. Luther and Calvin invented the fallible un-biblical “Sola Fide” and “Sola Scriptura” doctrines.

      • Pablo316

        Mind you I am not even a protestant. You are in too deep already into being deceived that people need the Bible plus tradition and even calling it unbiblical. There’s no wonder the world does turn upside down because of wrong teachings.
         
        The Lord Jesus Christ was right when He said:
         
        “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!” (Mark 7:9)

      • ThudOthwacker

        If your not a protestant. Then what are you, a born again loony? 

        Born again and protestant are the same, both are heretic. 

        Study the origin of your faux christian church first. Before you question my CHURCH authenticity.  

        ““You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!” (Mark 7:9)” ~Pablo316

        Read the whole chapter to get the full context. Typical heretic tactic, picking a verse that favors their blatant interpretation.

        Where in the bible says that only scripture is necessary for salvation.
        I DARE you show me the verse! 

        LOL Even some protestants agreed that scripture alone have no biblical basis. 

        “God bless!” ~Pablo316

        Don’t use GOD’s name in vain heretic.

        Exodus 20:7 ‘You shall not misuse the name of Yahweh your God, for Yahweh will not leave unpunished anyone who misuses his name.

        I know what your doing. Your hiding behind GOD’s good WORDS to spite Catholics. 

        Satanist inside Vatican. So what’s next, whore of Babylon?

        You know what you are? You are mentioned in the revelation.

        Rev 12:17 

        Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.
          

      • Pablo316

        I am simply a believer of the Lord Jesus Christ or what is
        popularly known as a ‘Christian’.

        There are far too many verses in the Bible that tells
        believers to just stick to what was given to believers and not to go beyond
        what was written. However if you will insist that there some so-called
        revelations or teachings that purports itself to be from God, it should not
        contradict what was already revealed in the Holy Scripture, otherwise it will
        be from the enemy.

        Anyway below are just some of those verses I am talking
        about:

        “But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have
        become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, and how
        from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you
        wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed
        and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
        so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.” (2
        Timothy 3:14-17)

         

        “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a
        gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! As
        we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a
        gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!” (Galatians
        1:8-9)

         

        “If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound
        instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, they are conceited
        and understand nothing. They have an unhealthy interest in controversies and
        quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil
        suspicions and constant friction between people of corrupt mind, who have been
        robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.”
        (1 Timothy 6:3-5)

         

        “For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not
        the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear
        from the Law until everything is accomplished.” (Matthew 5:18)

         

        “Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know
        the Scriptures or the power of God.” (Matthew 22:29)

         

        “It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the
        least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.” (Luke 16:17)

         

        “There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not
        accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last
        day.” (John 12:48)

         

        “The words of the wise are like goads, their collected
        sayings like firmly embedded nails—given by one shepherd. Be warned, my son, of
        anything in addition to them.” (Ecclesiastes 12:11-12)

         

        “Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to
        myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning
        of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” (1 Corinthians 4:6)

      • ThudOthwacker

        LOL A christian, how vague!  Anybody that opposed the teaching of the Catholic church is a “protestant”! Don’t try inventing new definition heretic.

        There is only one true church. That is the Holy Roman Catholic Church. And the rest are just enterprising entities. 

         There are more than 20 thousand protestant dominations.  And hundreds new protestant churches form everyday in the world. Each have different interpretations of the bible. 

        I bet, you don’t know where your church had split from. And what is your church doctrine? Hypocrisy. 

        A hypocrite “christian” discrediting the Catholic church. And the same time believing in a Catholic saint Malachi’s prophecy. 

        LOL The devil comes in all form. First the serpent, now the keyboard prophet.

        “If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the soundinstruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, they are conceitedand understand nothing. They have an unhealthy interest in controversies andquarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evilsuspicions and constant friction between people of corrupt mind, who have beenrobbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.”(1 Timothy 6:3-5)

        Remember these?

        “Satanists are actively doing their works inside the very walls of the Vatican.” ~Pablo316

        “Roman Catholics themselves are largely ignorant of what is happening in Vatican, so it will be no surprise if some would react violently to the fact that Vatican is now poised to recognize ‘space brothers’ and to present extra-terrestrials (or aliens who in truth are nothing but demons posing as entities from another planet) as just another fellow Roman Catholics to be baptized.” ~Pablo316

        Now tell me if what you wrote here are not malicious talk and evil suspicions?

        Practice what you preach. Much better if you read a Catholic bible. Because your heretic bible have some books missing. 

        Luther and Calvin personally took out the books that contradict their false teaching. Luther even tried to take revelation out. Because of;

        Revelation 22:18-19

        18 This is my solemn attestation to all who hear the prophecies in this book: if anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him every plague mentioned in the book;19 if anyone cuts anything out of the prophecies in this book, God will cut off his share of the tree of life and of the holy city, which are described in the book.Did your pastor taught to you? Or he is as ignorant as you too?

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WT5ZX5O7ZBC6Z3LXFA4UIQZC3I emajega

      ikaw lang naman ang nagsasabi na hindi nagbabasa ng biblya ang mga katoliko.

      for your info. all catholic priests cant graduate to be priest if they don’t read, understand and know the bible at heart. 10 years silang nasa seminaryo para dyan.

      • Pablo316

        Then if that is so. These priests becomes very guilty if they claim they’ve read the Bible and still disobeys its command.
         
        Thus the Lord Jesus Christ said:
         
        ”Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.” (John 9:41)

  • Albert Einstien

    we have at least 65 million members of RCC in our country BIGGER than spain & italy..we are TOP 3 in terms of population …1st RP pope in 440 years ….GO POPE TAGLE….you should choose the name ” POPE RP 1st ” …..it’s DUE time to ASCEND & RISE….our country is the only major catholic-christian country remaining other than spain, mexico & brazil…for more than 440 years already …pope benedict should support the PAPABILI of cardinal tagle to be known as : POPE RP 1st “……filipinos all over the WORLD should campaign for him…so that cardinals in conclave will elect him……go philippines CARPE DIEM….”Spe salvi facti sumus” …!let’s go for battle…filipinos it’s time for your facebook & twitter to have a GOoD CAUSE….LET’s support ALL filipinos in the GLOBAL STAGE ..we will show the WORLD that the filipino race has evolved to be the most intelligent & superior race..the ALPHA race….whatever sector they maybe representing ..like science,int’l politics, engineering, humanities, education, religion ( catholic-christian/muslims, pagans etc ), sports ,int’l finance , & all international competitions…we are NOW the most EVOLVED RACE …skilled, humble, generous,highly intelligent , adaptable ,educated & caring..use your facebook & twitter acounts to PROMOTE the superiority FILIPINO race..especially now ..if cardinal tagle will be chosen …FILIPINO race will make the BIRTH of a GLOBAL filipino …our country will benefit in all aspects like history, economy & over all greatness of our country & people… go go go.bombard with messages of SUPPORT for cardinal tagle .. the pope & cardinals facebook & twitter accounts till they vote for him as new POPE… .!

  • done_druff

    awwwww too bad Tagle was not mentioned… awwww…

    Well buti nga!

  • done_druff

    Uy pre REPOST ito ha from other thread! Ala ka nang masabing bago ano?!

  • done_druff

    Uy pre REPOST ito ha from other thread! Ala ka nang masabing bago ano?!

  • kilabot

    the rcc is a popecracy (or theocracy?) and the pope is considered infallible in rcc matters; 
    so why can’t the current pope just appoint his successor; 
    to spare the rcc from intrigues, politics and speculations; 
    and ensure no disruption of service and ministry.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/SPLUBLEOSERDBOIJTDOC6XIWGU mxsclxmxn

      RCC has been for centuries. We as the faithful don t have any complaints with our religion our faith. Perhaps your pastors are just envy of us!

      Kitang kita naman sa nyo! Bashings are left and right here!

      Ganun talaga pag ORIGINAL. SINISIRA ng PEKE!

  • AlexanderAmproz

    Philippines Clergy is a typical colonial club of corrupt pedophiliacs rapists with hidden families.

    To become Pope Dignity and Respect is basic, those notions are inexistent in the Philippines and don’t match with Pajero’s, Ivory smuggling and this disgusting habit of children’s molestations.

    Living like arrogant Prince’s on the middle of slums while ignoring dying children’s for lack of money to buy medicines, didn’t match with the image the christians want to give.

    Shouldn’t forget the Philippines Church is the world second wealthiest after Chile,
    where from is the money ? From the parents of the dying kids ? Do kids are only good for molestations ?

    Almost every single historical Churches religious icons were stolen by inside job to supply Manila collectors. Some robberies were done to buy prostitutes or to feed hidden families.

    Philippines Clergy is no more, no less than Philippines politics dirtiest mirror, an untouchable mirror.



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