New law points to Philippine church’s waning sway

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A “Pro-Life” sign flashes on an electric signboard outside the Roman Catholic Minor Basilica of the Black Nazarene in downtown Manila, Philippines on Thursday, Jan. 3, 2013. Philippine President Benigno Aquino III last month signed the Responsible Parenthood and Reproductive Health Act of 2012. The law that provides state funding for contraceptives for the poor pitted the dominant Roman Catholic Church in an epic battle against the popular Aquino and his followers. (AP Photo/Aaron Favila)

MANILA, Philippines—Twenty-six years after Roman Catholic leaders helped his mother marshal millions of Filipinos in an uprising that ousted a dictator, President Benigno Aquino III picked a fight with the church over contraceptives and won a victory that bared the bishops’ worst nightmare: They no longer sway the masses.

Aquino last month signed the Responsible Parenthood and Reproductive Health Act of 2012 quietly and without customary handshakes and photographs to avoid controversy. The law that provides state funding for contraceptives for the poor pitted the dominant Catholic Church in an epic battle against the popular Aquino and his followers.

A couple with links to the church filed a motion Wednesday to stop implementation of the law, and more petitions are expected. Still, there is no denying that Aquino’s approval of the legislation has chipped away at the clout the church has held over Filipinos, and marked the passing of an era in which it was taboo to defy the church and priests.

Catholic leaders consider the law an attack on the church’s core values — the sanctity of life — saying that contraceptives promote promiscuity and destroy life. Aquino and his allies see the legislation as a way to address how the poor — roughly a third of the country’s 94 million people — manage the number of children they have and provide for them. Nearly half of all pregnancies in the Philippines are unwanted, according to the U.N. Population Fund, and a third of those end up aborted in a country where abortion remains illegal.

Rampant poverty, overcrowded slums, and rising homelessness and crime are main concerns that neither the church nor Aquino’s predecessors have successfully tackled.

“If the church can provide milk, diapers and rice, then go ahead, let’s make more babies,” said Giselle Labadan, a 30-year-old roadside vendor. “But there are just too many people now, too many homeless people, and the church doesn’t help to feed them.”

Labadan said she grew up in a God-fearing family but has defied the church’s position against contraceptives for more than a decade because her five children, ages 2 to 12, were already far too many for her meager income. Her husband, a former army soldier, is jobless.

She said that even though she has used most types of contraceptives, she still considers herself among the faithful. “I still go to church and pray. It’s a part of my life,” Labadan said.

“I have prayed before not to have another child, but the condom worked better,” she said.

The law now faces a legal challenge in the Supreme Court after the couple filed the motion, which seems to cover more ideological than legal grounds. One of the authors of the law, Rep. Edcel Lagman, said Thursday that he was not worried by the petition and expected more to follow.

“We are prepared for this,” he said. “We are certain that the law is completely constitutional and will surmount any attack on or test of its constitutionality.”

Over the decades, moral and political authority of the church in the Philippines is perceived to have waned with the passing of one its icons, Cardinal Jaime Sin. He shaped the role of the church during the country’s darkest hours after dictator Ferdinand Marcos imposed martial law starting in 1972 by championing the cause of civil advocacy, human rights and freedoms. Sin’s action mirrored that of his strong backer, Pope John Paul II, who himself challenged communist rulers in Eastern Europe.

Three years after Aquino’s father, Benigno Aquino Sr., a senator opposing Marcos, was gunned down on the Manila airport tarmac in 1983, Sin persuaded Aquino’s widow, Corazon, to run for president. When massive election cheating by Marcos was exposed, Sin went on Catholic-run Radio Veritas in February 1986 to summon millions of people to support military defectors and the Aquino-led opposition. Marcos fled and Aquino, a deeply religious woman, was sworn in as president.

Democracy was restored, but the country remained chaotic and mired in nearly a dozen coup attempts. The economy stalled, poverty persisted and the jobless were leaving in droves for better-paying jobs abroad as maids, teachers, nurses and engineers. After Aquino stepped down, the country elected its first and only Protestant president, Fidel Ramos. He, too, opposed the church on contraceptives and released state funds for family planning methods.

Catholic bishops pulled out all the stops in campaigning against Ramos’ successor, popular movie actor Joseph Estrada, a hero of the impoverished masses who made little attempt to keep down his reputation for womanizing, drinking and gambling.

But few heeded the church’s advice. Estrada was elected with the largest victory margin in Philippine history. Halfway through his six-year presidency, in January 2001, he was confronted with another “people power” revolt, backed by political opponents and the military, and was forced to resign.

His successor, Gloria Macapagal Arroyo, styled herself as a devout Catholic and sought to placate the church by abolishing the death penalty and putting brakes on the contraceptives law, which languished in Congress during her nine years in power.

It mattered little. Arroyo’s mismanagement and corruption scandals set the stage for Aquino’s election on a promise to rid the Philippines of graft, fix the economy and lift millions out of poverty. The scion of the country’s democracy icon took power several years after Sin’s death, but it was a different era in which the church was battered by scandals of sexual misconduct of priests and declining family values.

The latest defeat of the church “can further weaken its moral authority at a time when this is most badly needed in many areas, including defense of a whole range of family values,” said the Rev. John J. Carroll, founding chairman of the Jesuit-run John J. Carroll Institute on Church and Social Issues. He said he wondered how many Catholics have been “turned off” by incessant sermons and prayers led by the church against the contraceptives law, and how much it contributed to rising anticlericalism and the erosion of church authority.

“People today are more practical,” said Labadan, the street vendor. “In the old days, people feared that if you defy the church, it will be the end of the world.” With Associated Press writers Jim Gomez and Teresa Cerojano

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  • ushldcallme

    2 Timothy 4:3 — “3 The time is sure to come when people will not accept sound teaching, but their ears will be itching for anything new and they will collect themselves a whole series of teachers according to their own tastes;”

    • http://www.pulisnapogi.blogspot.com/ Pulis Na Pogi

      very good and apt description of the church and its thousands of denominations and breakaway sects and factions…

    • Mark Philip Wu

      Matthew 23:1-7 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
      5 “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries[a] wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.

      THIS is the CBCP

    • rayingga

       2 Timoteo 4:3

       Sapagkat darating ang panahon hindi na sila makikinig sa wastong katuruan: sa halip, susundin nila ang kanilang hilig. Maghahanap sila ng mga tagapagturo na walang ituturo kundi ang ibig lamang nilang marinig.

       Tinagalog ko lang kaibigan para madaling unawain.

    • willbillywilly

      You have so much faith on the so called false bishops. Matthew 7:16 “You will know them by their fruits”. By the way, it was the chief priest & its hierarchy which conspired to put Christ to death.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_VPSXDLCQEZGZDJSX32G7PYHNCI Noel

        And it was the Spanish Friars who executed Jose Rizal.

    • tekateka

      STOP quoting the Bible:
      Find out the TRUTH here…

      youtube:
      Religion The Greatest Story Ever Sold (Zeitgeist)

    • Bli tz

      can you please tell me what teaching is considered “sound” in the days that Paul wrote this letter? and what the false teachers are telling them – “those with itching ears”?

  • mangtom

    From all indications, the party is over for the Damasos. A new dawn of hope for the Filipinos is in the offing. Praise the Lord. Thank the Lord.

  • joerizal

    Matagal nang hindi sinusunod ang turo ng simbahan – fasting, kasal, pagsisimba, tithing, etc. Hindi lang ngayon naging mahina ang impluwensiya ng mga pari. Kalokohan lang kasi ang itinuturo dahil sa imbes na makatulong sa kahirapan, lalo lang nalulugmok sa hirap at dusa ang mga tao. Lalong nananatiling mangmang ang mga tao dahil gusto ng simbahan na sundin lang sila na parang mga bulag na tupa ang mga taumbayan. May isip at dignidad ang mga tao at yun dapat ang unang ma-recognize ng simbahan kung gusto nilang sila ay respetuhin muli.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_VPSXDLCQEZGZDJSX32G7PYHNCI Noel

      Ang mga binanggit mong mga aral ay labag sa utos ng Diyos sa Biblia.  Iyan ang pangunahin dahilan kung bakit nawawala na ang pananampalataya ng mga Katoliko at marami ang lumilipat sa ibang mga grupo.

  • katutubongfilipino

    RH bill the best thing .  Pilipino people Happy New Year .Few nag aapoy sa galit then follow the process its welcome anyway democratic way

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Q3QGG5QHBLRMZTIYWUFURY6J2E Night

    i am pro libog

    • marionics

      di halata chong he he

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Q3QGG5QHBLRMZTIYWUFURY6J2E Night

        happy new year broda! hahahaha pare pareho lang tayo…….

      • marionics

        likwise he he
        nasaan na ang mga kapwa nating manyakis? he he

  • Mark Philip Wu

    The CBCP brought this on themselves. Just look at how they act and how they speak. And they want people to follow them, as an example of moral values? If they weren’t so irrational/crazy, more people would be listening to what they say. Instead, Catholics are always just disgusted whenever the RH Bill is the topic at mass instead of actually teaching about God and about Jesus, like what they’re supposed to do. 

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_VPSXDLCQEZGZDJSX32G7PYHNCI Noel

      They have long self-destructed.

  • boi skater

    It basically means that the average intelligence of the average Pinoy has gone up. It is high enough that most people are now free from the shackles of fear and ignorance which took away their ability to think and plan their own paths in life. Respect goes both ways, the Church must respect the intelligence of the people if they want respect in return.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_VPSXDLCQEZGZDJSX32G7PYHNCI Noel

      People are no longer illiterate like the ones decades and centuries ago when they looked up to Priests like gods.

  • rayingga

     No offend to all non-catholics sariling opinion lang po at di saklaw ang pananampalataya ng iba.
     Sa akin ang Iglesia Katoliko Apostoliko Romano ay Banal, Dadapwat marami sa nagpapalaganap nito ay hindi kaaya-aya kay Kristo Jesus. Marami ang lumilihis sa tunay na turo ng banal na iglesia, mga pari obispo, arsobispo o maging ang tagapagturo ng katesisimo. Dapat po kayong naririyan at tagapagingat ng iglesia ay maging tunay na huwaran ng mga mananampalataya, walang dungis upang bawat salita na inyong bibigkasin ay madaling unawain at sundin. Alam na alam ninyo ang kasulatan, talastas ninyo ang utos ni Jesus bakit ninyo sinusuway. Kailangan pa bang isa-isahin ang inyong mga pagkakamali, pagkukulang wag na dahil hindi sa akin ang paghatol nakay Kristo Jesus. Magising naman kayo sa katotohanan at pahalagahan ang inyong mga kasuotan. Minsan ng ipinako si Kristo sa krus wag na ninyong ipakong muli.If you are the chosen one bakit di kayo bumaba sa pedestal at hugasan ang paa ng mga kaibigan. May panahon pa mga obispo at tanang kaparian, pray very hard para sumainyo ang banal na Espiritu Santo.

    • tekateka

       Lahat yan bro FAKE… if you are not a REAL fanatic.. you should watch this:

      youtube:
      Religion The Greatest Story Ever Sold (Zeitgeist)

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/UZF4OTGY4BREFE42RXP7FZJKFY Ding

        KAKATETE mo ‘yan ang napala mo…ikaw lang siguro ang nagbebenta ng religion mo.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_VPSXDLCQEZGZDJSX32G7PYHNCI Noel

      Upang malaman kung nasa tunay na pananampalataya, suriin ang mga aral na itinuturo ng simbahan.  Ayon ba ang mga ito sa mga aral ng Diyos na nakasulat sa Banal na Kasulatan?  O gawa lamang ng mga tao at tradisyon na pagano?  Anong klase ang mga tagapagturo?  Nagtuturo ba sila ng katotohanan o kasinungalingan?  Ginagawa ba nila mismo ang kanilang itinuturo? 

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/UZF4OTGY4BREFE42RXP7FZJKFY Ding

        Ang pananampalatayang Katoliko ang iglesiang itinatag ni Jesus Christ mismo…halos isang libo limang daang taon na ang Catholic Christians nang ipanganak si Martin Luther.  At halos limang daang taon na rin ang protest ni Luther, bago sumulpot ang Born Agains.  Dalawang libong taon na ito sa kasalukuyang panahon…hindi napigil sa paglago, ipinakain man sa mga leon ang mga naunang Kristiyano…maraming pari ang nasangkot sa inquisition noon Middle Ages…may mga obispong naging pedophilia, atbp., may mga pumanig sa RH bill, PERO MANANATILI ANG PANANAMPALATAYANG KATOLIKO KRISTIYANO …WALANG HANGGANAN…UNIVERSAL…CATHOLIC.

         Hindi maikakailang may mga naging kasiraan, PERO HINDI ANG PANANAMPALATAYA, kundi ang ilang sa mga pari nito. 

        Marami kayong nabasang kumento ng mga Katoliko, na nananatiling Katoliko, na isinaboses ang kanilang hindi pagsangayon sa ilang gustong mangyari ng ilang pari, ISA AKO SA MGA KATOLIKONG PATULOY NA NAGPO-POST NG PANGAMBA SA MAAARING MAGING KAHIHINATNAN NG GINAGAWA NG ILANG PARI, HINDI LAMANG SA PANANAMPALATAYA KUNDI SA KALAGAYANG POLITICAL, LALO PA’T ELECTION YEAR NGAYON.

        ANG MATUTUWA LAMANG NIYAN AY ANG MGA MAY KASO NG PANDARAMBONG AT PANGAABUSO NOONG SILA’Y NASA KAPANGYARIHAN.  AT YAONG MGA MIYEMBRO NG PARTIDONG MAY MGA KASONG KRIMINAL.  SANA  MAN LANG AY ISINAALANG-ALANG NG MGA PARI ANG MASELANG IBUBUNGA NG GINAGAWA NILA.

        SINABI KONG HINDI LAHAT NG PARI, DAHIL MAGUGUNITANG MAY MGA NAGTANGGOL SA ATENEO AT ILANG PROFESSORS NILA SA KANILANG PAG-AYON SA RH BILL.

  • brunogiordano

    “People today are more practical,” said Labadan, the street vendor. “In the old days, people feared that if you defy the church, it will be the end of the world ”

    Pagkatapos mabisto at mabulgar ang mga mali at kasinugalingan ng mga pari, obispo,cardinal kasama ang kanilang mga alipin Sa kanilang paglaban sa RH bill nagumpisa na ang end of the world sa kanilang paghahari sa mga katolikong PILIPINO.

    Lahat na ng mga PILIPINO maliban sa ilan mga natitira nilang alipin ay WALA NG TIWALA SA MGA PARI, OBISPO AT CARDINAL at sa halip sila ay pinangdidirihan na ngayon.

    Ang mga bata ay hindi na pinalalapit at pinasasamang mag isa sa kanila sa pangambang baka
    Ma-child abuse(molestation) ang bata.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_VPSXDLCQEZGZDJSX32G7PYHNCI Noel

      And don’t forget the “Great Inquisition”.

      • brunogiordano

        “And don’t forget the “Great Inquisition”.”

        Hindi ko malilimutan ang great inquisition dahil sila ang nagpapatay sa pamamagitan ng pagsunog sa stake kay GIORDANO BRUNO dahil ayaw maniwala ni BRUNO sa kanilang maling paniwala na ang ARAW ang umiikot sa MUNDO.

        Hangang ngayon hindi pa humihingi ng paumanhin ang VATICAN sa maling pagpapatay kay BRUNO.

  • Magsasaka

    little by little ignorance is being overcome by common sense that is why RCC is no longer an institution to believe with.

    religions have no moral authority, their very purpose is to take care of the spiritual aspect of our society and yet the materialistic leaders of most religions live like a king.

  • acidicboy

    the actions of some of these bishops and their most rabid supporters do not reflect the teachings of the Catholic Church, as far as I know. as a matter of fact, their behavior is akin to the same people that Jesus and John the Baptist spoke against in the scriptures.  Here’s a food for thought:

    “Accordingly, the New Testament, particularly the Synoptic Gospels,
    presents especially the leadership of the Pharisees as obsessed with
    man-made rules (especially concerning purity) whereas Jesus is more
    concerned with God’s love; the Pharisees scorn sinners whereas Jesus seeks them out.  Because of the New Testament’s frequent depictions of Pharisees as self-righteous rule-followers,
    the word “pharisee” (and its derivatives: “pharisaical”, etc.) has come
    into semi-common usage in English to describe a hypocritical and
    arrogant person who places the letter of the law above its spirit.”

    just because someone claims to speak in the Lord’s behalf while he threatens, coerces and instill fear to people DOES NOT mean it is true.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_VPSXDLCQEZGZDJSX32G7PYHNCI Noel

      The Bible also refers to these Bishops and Priests as “wolves in sheep’s clothing”.

    • acidicboy

       and the irony of it is, they do not see how this issue and the words and actions of people like bishop broderick pabillo, who implied that the hundreds of deaths in Northern Mindanao because of the flood was because of the rh bill- on Radio Veritas no less!- can turn off a lot of Church followers. 

  • weeshfulThinker

    I think this shows one thing. The RCC here in the Philippines must STOP fighting the Government and just concentrate on doing the things they have to do. They have to STOP telling people what to do. Nowadays, they don’t have the same power they used too. Time have changed, and so should they.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YAU43R25CAHGNYPHE6HLAM3V6Y Benjamin

    tahan na Father..di bale nagpasasa naman kayo noong panahon ng kapanalig nyong si Gloriang KAWATAN..

  • tekateka

    End of the Dumb Fanatics!!!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_VPSXDLCQEZGZDJSX32G7PYHNCI Noel

    The Catholic Church has never been strong.  She used force to spread the teachings and punish those who opposed her.  A clear example was our National Hero Dr. Jose Rizal.  Even though the Catholic Church led by the late Cardinal Sin played a major role in the ouster of Marcos, it would not have been possible without the support of Enrile-Ramos’ military as well as US-CIA.

  • yesyesyo

    I dont believe the President picked a fight with the church. It was strong political will, plain and simple.

     

    • Ed Molina

      i think it’s the other way around. the church picked a fight on the president and anybody else who oppose them. now they’re seeing the hard truth.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XQODE2FO77XSRL7WNORTHGEKUU Eric

    It is not the church call that lead to edsa 1, but the peoples anger with Marcos, we have to be clear with this, we in the august 21 movement then are just waiting for the right time, it just happen that  then cardinal sin make a call when then president ramos ask for it. But it was never, never and never  the force of the catholic church. we are already doing some civil acts before it happen. correction lang po!

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_D3LDMMAKC6UDQLDVFP2DGSJBXY Jezzrel

      LOL… kung wala silang broadcaster, sa tingin mo makakapagtipon tipon kaagad ng maramihan ang mga nag “people power” kuno? Siguro kailangan mong magbasa ng maayos tungkol sa sinasabi mong people power…me external power pang nakialam ..

  • quirinomayer

    Melvin Castro, Bishop Arguelles, Oscar Cruz, Teodoro Bacani at lahat ng mga naghahahariang Padre Damaso dito sa bansa natin, tsupii. Nandidiri ang mga Pilipino sa inyo.  Kaunti na lang ang mga natitirang mangmang na indio na kaya nyong paikutin at apiin dito sa Pilipinas. Alisss!

  • dickenhead

    this is fact which the church & its few diehards fanatics refuse to believe

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Smith/100003026114865 John Smith

    “contraceptives promote promiscuity and destroy life”

    What idiots.  You want to know what destroys life?

    Poverty and malnutrition from parents having too many children to feed.

    Children being raped by priests.

    Destruction of the environment from human overpopulation.

    The Philippines already has about 100 million people and can’t feed itself.  It’s only a matter of time before the debtor economy collapses and food supplies dwindle and starvation happens.  And the idiot catholic cultists want it to happen faster instead of preventing it.

  • NoWorryBHappy

    Gloria Macapagal Arroyo, styled herself as a
    devout Catholic and sought to placate the church by abolishing the death
    penalty and putting brakes on the contraceptives law, which languished
    in Congress during her nine years in power.
    :
    It mattered little. Arroyo’s mismanagement
    and corruption scandals set the stage for Aquino’s election on a promise
    to rid the Philippines of graft, fix the economy and lift millions out
    of poverty …
    :
    The Church MUST read the writing on the wall:
    The message of the unreformed reformer NEVER inspires reformation.
    :
    Supporting corrupt pro-life politicians will only further alienate the faithful.
    More so, with supporting corrupt pro-life political dynasties. The Filipino electorate has
    shed its attitude of indifference. After a dose of an uplifting, honest and effective 
    good governance under President Noynoy, the Filipinos will never want to look back.

  • Marc Austin Albert Figuerroa

    These justices in the white robes doesn’t really opening their eyes to what 21st century is all about.  There is simbang gabi online, burol online, and misa online.  They are just pretending to be deaf and blind….surely they are the 21st type of Friars ! and Damasos !  Wake up guys….For all we know…you also drinking spree ! and sodomized fresh youths oh ! yeah that’s what we called unnatural family planning ! Shame on you all

  • brunogiordano

    “She said that even though she has used most types of contraceptives, she still considers herself among the faithful. “I still go to church and pray. It’s a part of my life,” Labadan said.”

    Iyan ang typical at majority na katoliko ngayon na may Progressive/Liberal na pagiisip.

    Nagsisimba kahit walang pari.

    Ngayon libre na ang contraceptives at condom kahit paano may kaunti na siyang pandagdag Sa kaniyang pang araw araw na gastusin.

    Salamat sa RH LAW.

  • Guest

    Kahit naman mawalan ng myembro ang simbahang katoliko, mayaman pa rin naman ang simbahan. Andaming lupa. Andaming investment sa blue chip companies sa stock market. Ang CBCP pa lang may malaking holdings sa Philex Mining, Atlas Mining, SMIC ni Henry Sy, PLDT ni Pangilinan, Meralco ni Pangilinan, ALI ng Ayala, PNB ni Lucio Tan, BPI ni Ayala atbp. Andaming ginto ng simbahan na nakatago sa kaha de yero na syang kinulimbat nila mula pa noong panahon ng mga kastila. At higit sa lahat, hindi naman nagbabayad ng buwis ang simbahang katoliko tulad nating mga mamamayan. Yung si Kardinal Sin dati, saksakan ng taba dahil lamon ng lamon. Walang kabusugan ang mga prayleng damaso. Pag napunta kayo sa Ateneo, wala namang payat at naghihikahos na pare sa kabila ng kanilang vow of poverty. Mga hipokrito!

  • Ommm

    ” Labadan said she grew up in a God-fearing family”

    God is not supposed to be feared but loved… it’s the church that wants to instill fear and extort the population with threats of eternal damnation. Only 500 years ago the catholic church tortured and labelled people “heretics” who did not buy what they were selling. This self appointed right hand of God seized property, created wars and burned people alive during the Spanish Inquisition. Estimated 3000-5000 were killed…well correction…The most serious punishment was relaxation to the secular arm for burning at the stake—the
    Church did not itself kill. This penalty was frequently applied to
    impenitent heretics and those who had relapsed. Execution was public. If
    the condemned repented, they were shown mercy by being garroted before burning; if not, they were burned alive.

    Long ago yet Spain ruled this country from 1565 to 1821. The churches’ reign of terror and fear are deeply ingrained in our culture. Only the volume has been turned down to appease modern times, yet the channel has never changed.

    The churches’ outrage at their current loss of power is highly revealing about who they are and their intentions on this planet. Certainly the persecutors of heretics may indeed be the heretics themselves….

    • addictscience

      Poverbs 9:10 – The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

      If you fear God, meaning you fear doing evil things. It means that if you fear God, that’s because you love Him.

      • http://thesocietyofhonor.blogspot.com/ Joe America

        I’m slow on this, as I last attended bible school some 30 years ago. Fearing God means I am afraid to do bad things? But I’m not afraid to do bad things at all. I don’t do bad things because I don’t like letting myself down. Does that mean I don’t love God? Am I going to Hell even though I don’t fear God? I respect Him, immensely. But I am not God fearing. I trust in His goodness, and His ability to comprehend my sincerity. I simply don’t grasp this “fear” motivation.

      • Tnosce

        $$$$$$ – In God We Trust, ha ! ha ! ha !

  • Platypus09

    This writer’s liberal ideas are biased against the Catholic church. He forgot to mention that there was not a whole lots of votes between the pro-RH and the anti-RH bill voters in Congress.

    I still applaud the Catholic church for keeping the natural law of order.

    My respect to the Catholic church has not been diminished.  

    This law will backfire and will not be effective in the long run.

    • Mark Philip Wu

      I assume that’s also what they said when they opposed teaching about Jose Rizal in schools, or when they said that the Sun revolved around the Earth

      • Platypus09

        That was not the only thing that came out from Catholicism though you think it was bad. But there  were lots of good things too, too much to mention.

        You are simply being biased against a good thing, Catholicism. Give them the credits where they are due.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_D3LDMMAKC6UDQLDVFP2DGSJBXY Jezzrel

        Can you also prove that the earth really revolves around the sun?

        Eto basahin mo mula sa old testament Psalm 93:1 & Job 26:7

      • Mark Philip Wu

        Yep, a person who is not convinced that the Earth is moving around the sun. Behold the company you keep, anti-RHers

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3QBMYPCCPWL5IDWF55BTBVWSAE UPLB-2008-3****

        Gaga, ever heard of astronomy? Or NASA? Napapamura na talaga ako dahil sa ubod ng katangahan mo pagdating sa usaping iyan – na napakatagal nang napatunayan. Tsk.

      • Turono

        Tililililing!!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Abdul-Rashid/100004367910013 Abdul Rashid

    The only Catholic consideration is more babies more baptism, more baptism means more money and unless the Aquino administration extends SUVs to bishos and Father Damaso they will never change stand.

  • rock7222

    20 years ago, the census had 91% of Filipinos as Roman Catholic.

    Today, 20 years later, its down to 80% of Filipinos as indentifying themselves as Roman Catholic.

    What happened in the Catholic Church in the United States, Canada & the entire Europe is NOW also clearly happening in the Philippines. Its the STEADY & SYSTEMATIC DECLINE of the Catholic Church.

    Unless the Church Leadership WAKES-UP to this reality & actually does something about it- in another decade, they are estimated to lose another 10% of their members according to progressive catholic groups.
     
    In another 20 years, we could realistically see Filipino catholics down to 65%  of the entire population. 

    The Philippine Catholic Church LOSES MORE PRIESTS every year than it brings in.

    Several hundred Catholic seminarians who dream of becoming a Priest are LOST Every single year as they CHANGE heir minds.The Church LOSES MORE Seminarians for Priesthood than it is able to recruit.

    In the US & Canada, New Ordained Priest are ALMOST Non-Existent for americans & Canadians. 9 out of 10 new Priests in America today are RECRUITED from countries like the Philippines, Poland & Africa.

     
    This has been going on for 10 years now !!!

  • Platypus09

    Catholicism is a part of our Filipino culture since the beginning of our consciousness as a nation irregardless of what happens to the numbers.  

    • Mark Philip Wu

      Except for the part where Catholicism came from Spain, not the Philippines. Our earliest ancestors were not Catholic at all, and fought against it. So what, their heritage is meaningless now? And all Filipinos who are not Catholic are somehow “less Filipino” than those who are?

      Religion cannot define a culture. Heck, nothing can define a culture. Cultures are whatever the people are, not some list of things written on paper, cultures and traditions live and die, changing however the people do

      • Platypus09

        Religion cannot define a culture? You are totally wrong. What is the origin of celebrating Christmas? Does it not come from the practice of Catholicism or Christianity?

        You cannot take away the three hundred plus years that we practiced Catholicism. Catholicism in the country and rural areas was peaceful except in the revolutionary Manila and other surrounding areas at the end of Spanish regime.

      • jumpah

        I did my research why we celebrate christmas …go to YouTube and watch ” KNOW YOUR ENEMY” 77 parts uploaded by: TheFuelProject its a well explained documentary

      • Platypus09

        I can’t believe that you are believing what you saw in you tube.

        Am sure there are more credible stories and facts other than what you saw in you tube.

      • jumpah

         I cant believed though what you hear from the catholics you believed…Do you remember what the Catholics did to Galileo?

  • jumpah

    isinilang ako bilang Katoliko pero hindi ako isinilang na isang sunudsunuran sa doktrina ng CBCP at ng VATICAN

    • Platypus09

      But most religions follow some standards, doctrines, or policies (whatever you call them) big or small, even in Christian denominations.

      You might just be as well be an independent God worshipper, no affiliation with any denomination.

      Good luck.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6OHU6HNDR4NDTAJUFZSJS7BKNQ DontJUDGEmeIMnotABooK

      Hindi ka katoliko…peke ka! ako PRO-RH pero walang galit at poot sa Catholic Church kasi may freedom kami…hindi kami katulad ng Iglesia ni Manalo (INC) na sunod-sunoran! 

  • wewenex

    Getting pregnant or giving birth is not a sickness. There is
    always an advantage of having a big number of populations. Workforce is one,
    military defense is another. What this country needs is a corruption-free
    environment. Your RH Law will just worsen the problem. Who will control the
    budget for that RH Law? For sure nangangati na ang mga kamay ng mga corrupt na
    hahawak ng budgte na yan. The next thing they do is provide a low quality condom
    and the like. The next thing we see, unwanted children born with probably
    health problems – causes, law quality of RH Materials etc. Another thing would
    be waste disposal of the used RH Materials, and many more.

    The whole Philippine Island is not really over populated. It
    is the government that is over populated by corrupt officials and it will go on
    to infinity. Why? Because these corrupt officials are begetting children of
    their own. Dumadami sila, and their increase is simply uncontrollable. Pwede ba
    sa kanila nlang i-apply ang RH Law na yan?

    If I may state my honest opinion.

     

    • acidicboy

       workforce and military defense?

      so how come we’ve got a huge unemployment rate?  and you think sending a Filipino out to work as a maid or laborer abroad is a good situation?

      also, military defense?  you obviously do not know what you speak of.  tell me, an army of 10,000 Filipinos with sidearms vs. 300 soldiers in a navy frigate armed with ballistic missiles… who do you think would win? lol….

      • wewenex

        You are out of your common sense. Read your comment and think again. Precisely! You sound “either-or.”

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_HOCSZLQBWVGXXI2NZJ2P7LMPHA Leond Yobar

      Ang ilit naman ng kukuti mo! Your a product of the catholic church run school!

    • Carum Al Dumal

       Workforce? Do you know how many Pinoys are unemployed and how many are under-employed? Do you know why 10 percent of the Philippine population are OFW? Care to even guess? Dude! What are you smoking?

      • wewenex

        You are out of your common sense. Read your comment and think again. Precisely! You sound “either-or.” Tell that to your government. You hit your own.

      • Carum Al Dumal

         On the contrary wewenex. I know exactly what is going on. The Government has approved the RH bill for good reason. Yet, you think our population should still increase when there are no jobs available, when those who are unemployed do not have the capability to support themselves. Got your goat didn’t I?

    • addictscience

      You are right with your conception, but i thought you need to read the whole RH bill Article all over again. Actually its not to prevent giving birth, but to avoid unplanned birth. What we want is family planning that is proven to elevate the economy.
      Yes, corruption should be priotized than RH bill. And if you have some ideas, then don’t criticized  the government, help them become more transparent and corruption free.
      I hope you are a Filipino, cause if your are not then you are our enemy who wants war who mentioned to increase soldiers affected by RH bill. That’s an old school military tactics. We are in the modern world. The full world war can be done with only several people in just a push of a button.Imagine that.You better go for technological research and elevated the country’s status.

      • wewenex

        Yes boss. I’m doing my part. I just don’t need to shout it to the hilltops. I just don’t want to sound like simply saying yes or no, I act on my conviction. 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_EDXEVEFHW2ZT5VWHDWBNM6XGE4 RyanE

    The passing of the proposed divorce bill next congress will the final nail on the coffin of the church. 

    • jumpah

       ayaw ko nang divorce kasi walang yaman ang asawa ko hehehe saka na lang

  • AllinLawisFair

    Before the Church can effectively prevent promiscuity in society, it should first clean its own “churchyard,” by preventing promiscuity among priests and bishops who sire children, have concubines and pedophiles in their ranks who prey on minors.

    These are among the reasons why I have lost my respect on many of them, despite my being born and raised as a Catholic.

    • Platypus09

      Your Catholic faith, if it was strong at the very beginning, should never be changed regardless of what some clergy allegedly had done to some children.

      Those acts of priests are being used as excuses to the weakening of their faith. Your faith should be getting stronger as days go by practicing Catholicism the way it should be with the help of the Holy Spirit and utility of the Holy Sacraments.

      • AllinLawisFair

        None has proven yet which is the true religion. but since I was born and raised as a Catholic I will remain as one to the end. But this does not mean that I have to follow blindly what some bishops and priests of this church say.
        I do not join those who meet and pray at least once a week in their so-called prayer meetings. In my opinion those are nothing but show.

        I communicate with my God the way I conceive Him to be, and not what others tell me how to worship Him. If only all the people follow the Golden Rule, this world would be peaceful.

        2013/1/4 Disqus

      • Platypus09

        Sounds reasonable.

      • AllinLawisFair

        Every religion has its own share of black sheeps in its flock.

        2013/1/4 Disqus

      • niap kcen

        it says that a church leader must be “above reproach”, and there is nothing for which to accuse him.

        it does not mean he has not committed sins in his life. what it does mean is that his life has not been marred by some obvious sinful defect in character which would preclude him setting the highest standard for godly conduct. he must be a model for the church members to follow. 

        question now: how would a leader, a considered criminal, be an example to be followed? what moral standard or pattern would the congregation copy or mimic in their lives? how would he nourish, lead and strengthen their faith if he himself is weak and faithless?

        if i will agree with your arguments, churches should not have leaders in the first place.

      • Platypus09

        Two things:

        1.) If you are waiting for a perfect person to lead any Church, then you are simply wasting your time. There is no such thing as a perfect human being. Only God is perfect, we know that. I don’t think priests are Gods, as far as what I know, they are not.

        2. Take the Pope as an example. Did you hear any accusations of pedophile acts against him that he did in the past? None. And lots of priests have similar excellent reputations. And they are excellent servants of the Catholic church. It is not fair for these excellent Catholic leaders to be tainted as bad even if they have not done these sexual abuses. Though they are trying to clean up. What else can they do?

        If you are waiting for perfect leaders in the Catholic church (or any church for that matter), that is not going to happen realistically.

        With that said, I will not gonna buy or agree with your argument.

      • niap kcen

        re-read what i have written above.. i never said a “perfect leader”. that is your argument, not mine.. i would say you should avoid using correlation fallacy: a technique that make wrong interpretations from facts. i respect your opinion though. but filipinos already learned – that’s fact.

      • Platypus09

        Lots of people are still ranting about these sexual abuses by simply alluding to that argument of looking for that perfect leader.

    • carlos_premacio

      the same is also true to born again pastors raping their own daughters. before they preach in their churches they should also clean their pastors. 

  • Carum Al Dumal

    Like someone before me said – The Church is NOT Pro-Life! It is PRO BIRTH. What kind of life can you give a child when you are dirt poor? Have him beg for alms along the street? I have recent photos of child beggars which I would like to post here but cannot. Too bad.

  • http://thesocietyofhonor.blogspot.com/ Joe America

    Church doctrine does not change. People’s knowledge of medicine and social impacts of individual decisions advance. RH is compassionate. Divorce is reasonable. The years pass and the gap between the Church and social knowledge widens, and people eventually give up listening to an institution that appears so cruel and unenlightened. The Church sags into irrelevance. Sad for the people who need her.

    • Platypus09

      Raising the children is the responsibilty of the parents, not the church.

      Birthing more children is the decision that comes from the parents and not the church.

      The Catholic Church of the Philippines is simply being conservative and keeping the natural law of order the way it should be. It should not persecuted for trying to safeguard what seems to be natural.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_EDXEVEFHW2ZT5VWHDWBNM6XGE4 RyanE

        Let’s just hope that the priests and bishops will not practice “naturism”, if they haven’t started yet..

      • http://thesocietyofhonor.blogspot.com/ Joe America

        @Platypus09, yes I agree raising children is the responsibility of parents, not church, and birthing more children is the decision that comes from parents, not church. I also insert that it is the obligation of the State to educate it’s children and its adults, and to provide essential services to the poor. It is not persecution of the church for the State to do its job. It only SEEMS like persecution because the church is trying to defend the indefensible, withholding education, health and medical care to women.

      • Platypus09

        The government can still educate women about reproduction and medical care. There are laws already on those.

        Do you really believe that our government will provide these services to the poor? I am not sure about this bill.

      • http://thesocietyofhonor.blogspot.com/ Joe America

        Well, you are right to have reservations, given that it opens opportunities for greedy hands to get into the distribution pie. I think passage of the bill is significant because it opens awareness to the idea that not just the rich can avail themselves of family planning, and we will start to see people raising smaller families that they can actually care for. 

      • band1do

        Well argued.  

      • http://thesocietyofhonor.blogspot.com/ Joe America

        Thank you. It is good to have a discussion where people may not agree, without namecalling.

      • Tnosce

        Hey ! You forgot to argue the mortality rate of children in the Philippines. This is one of the cause why married couple need to have more children.

      • Tnosce

        Russia, China and Japan are now doing the opposite, they are increasing their population to protect there sovereignty.  

    • band1do

      VERY well said.  Likes all round.  

      • Tnosce

        Well said that is why J A abandoned P I in the pacific. ha ! ha ! ha ! now you lose your moral ascendancy. Are you going back in time as they use to call the people brown monkeys ? 

  • Carum Al Dumal

    The Catholic Church was an Ally in the fight against Ferdinand Marcos. So it played an important role in getting people together. Radio Veritas served it’s purpose. So did June Keithley and the brave broadcaster of 1986 PEOPLE POWER movement. There is a reason it was called PEOPLE POWER and NOT CHURCH POWER. Care to guess why?

  • addictscience

    Im not against in any churches because that’s their freedom of choice for religion.However, the Filipinos had been brainwash about defying the priests. Yes, they are the appointed one in the church, but they cannot do anything which is more than that of the teaching of the Bible. How could we make more children if we cannot afford to raise our born children?That is selfishness which unmistakably a sin. 

    Filipinos especially in the catholic churches be aware of your priests, we are not on the dark ages anymore. You can read your Bible, the standard one, and try to evaluate yourself which is sin. Either by begetting children yet killing them by not providing enough living, or preventing them first in order to raise our born children in a more humane way.

    People if you want changes, then you are making development.
    (Mga kababayan paggusto nyo ng pagbabago, kayo din gumagawa ng pag-unlad)

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/VS5EYSP4FPOTVQCJZ24NRE6Z2M Edgardo Mendoza

    SATANAS CARNIVAL TAGLE DAMASO!! BRAIN WASH PILIPINOS TO BE IDIOTS AND STUPID!!

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/VS5EYSP4FPOTVQCJZ24NRE6Z2M Edgardo Mendoza

    PROLIFE MAYOR LITO ATIENZA BAN BIRTH CONTROL PILLS IN METRO MANILA KAYA DUMAMI ANG MGA BATANG HUBO!! SATANAS CARNIVAL TAGLE DAMASO EXTREMIST TERRORIST!!!

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/SM7OFQDMZKAEUNDSIM2OU4SYYM mark ryan paguirigan

      delusional

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SWETT3MTRLN22WP5LR46QBIUCQ bornite

    bago kayo mag komento…ano ba laman ng bill na yan???? alam niyo ba? paki liwanagan kami kung bakit hindi yan makatao? 

  • aquaman337

    As what I have thought of months before the voting on the RH Bill—Christians and the Church will once again be persecuted. How sad it is to realize that the mother (who is the Church) who opened the eyes of its children (the people) will be betrayed and persecuted.

    Pro RH groups had been proclaiming and insisting on the Damaso’s of the Church today, yet they don’t realize that they actually became one. The same people, for sure, teach and have taught their children, and grand children about morality, yet they don’t practice it. How sad it is to realize. 

    I have read the comments prior to mine, and I was hurt with the way people have viewed the Church today. They forgot about the good things the Church had done for the country and for the Filipino people. They forgot what the role of the Church is. Most essentially, I believe, they forgot that they themselves are spiritual beings. How sad it is to realize.

    • http://thesocietyofhonor.blogspot.com/ Joe America

      @aquaman337. Maybe this will help uplift your spirits. Never like to see a downhearted guy. There are two churches, the spiritual church that tends to God’s children and the  political church (CBCP) that has chosen to engage in the dirty business of politics and gotten it’s robes a little splattered. That is not persecution. That is a poor decision on the part of the political leaders of the Church. It is very bad form when they use loaded political words (“ethnic cleansing”) or threats (Roxas will not be President) or condemn the most popular president in Philippine history (Mr. Aquino), almost as if they would favor a return to corruption. No no no. This is not persecution. The CBCP bishops want to engage the secular State, they cannot hold a pious position of purity that says non-Catholics, or even Catholics who reason, must be “hands off” whilst the political bishops seek to undermine the secular State. You speak of the spiritual Church, and she is indeed good and important. But she is not political.She is for goodness.

      • aquaman337

        thanks for that input Joe America :D I learned something new tonight.

      • Tnosce

        Go into politics clean and come out dirty. ha ! ha ! ha !

      • http://thesocietyofhonor.blogspot.com/ Joe America

        aquaman337, sure. I’ve thought about it a lot because the Catholic Church is soooo important in local communities, and most priests and nuns are deeply good hearted souls. But there is an institutional church, and it is engaging the State rather bluntly. But be of good cheer. Cardinal Tagle is near. He’s one smart dude. And I think he can find a good way forward.

      • aquaman337

        I agree, and hopefully, with our prayers as well, our new young cardinal will be able to open the eyes of everyone, and lead everyone to the way, the truth, and the life. 

  • band1do

    Seems like Hrvoje Hranjski is keen to side with the Church in regards to political sway.  Moreover, it seems that this is another article aimed at stirring unnecessary controversy regarding political affairs and church matters so the public can once again feel sympathy towards the losers, in this case the Church.  

    Furthermore, I cannot understand why our nation, whose founding fathers where against the Church and it’s rule over her people (Aguinaldo, Bonifacio, Rizal, Del Pilar, Sakay, et al), still confide in the Church for salvation regarding ethics.  This is terrible and shameful.

    • Tnosce

      Hey ! you got RIP off.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000028335707 Tom Corpuz

    The Government is trying to find ways to manage the people based on practicality. The Church is acting out on issues of Morality. It will eventually clash time and time again… but the only problem I see with the Church is that they want to keep the values of the “Old days” and we are not in those days anymore..time has changed and we have to find some ways to cope or remedy what is happening now and address the issues that are relevant today. Life is all about choices..and I think the Government is just giving us another option on What  the church has failed to instill and educate the people regarding sex, which is taboo to the Church. Yes I know that premarital sex is a bad thing but the Church hadn’t got any luck with making the people see that this was wrong. I am a catholic and I have grown up to the values and ways of the church.But we are now in a Time that calls for immediate but permanent solution to the issues at hand. If the Church can find ways to address this issue in their own terms then let us see. But for now we have no other option but what the Government has to offer. 

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/VS5EYSP4FPOTVQCJZ24NRE6Z2M Edgardo Mendoza

    CARNIVAL TAGLE DAMASO BRAIN WASH PILIPINOS TO BE IDIOT AND STUPID!! SA NEW ZEALAND MAS MARAMI ANG BAKA SA TAO KAYA SAWA SA STEAK!! SA PILIPINAS MAS MARAMI ANG BATANG HUBO SA BAKA KAYA MARAMING ISNATCHER AT DEAPERADO!!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6OHU6HNDR4NDTAJUFZSJS7BKNQ DontJUDGEmeIMnotABooK

    Marami ng Batas ang nagawa para sa Pilipino…ang tanong nasusunod ba? Mas malaki ang problema sa corruption kesa populasyon… RH Bill ay pirangot lang yan na solusyon!

  • legrandcharles

    We might be more than 500 years late, but it seems we’re finally moving out of the Dark Ages.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/XWH5SD6XPM3XKND6PJQQ32ZRAU Mabuhay

    Hindi na talaga credible ang catholic church and ALL churches…..marunong ng mag isip at magbasa ang mga tao. How would you believe a church which is haunted by sexual assaults of priests themselves, smuggling of elephant tusks by priests themselves, acceptance of jueteng money, acceptance of Pajeros from corrupt GMA, etc. Aside from that no church allows even its backyard to serve as evacuation centers during calamities. That is hypocrisy…..

    • aquaman337

      I agree that people nowadays can already read and thing, however, PEOPLE THINK IN THE CONTEXT THEY WANT TO THINK. They read for themselves.

      For the rest of your arguments, I won’t reply, because they’re not simply absolute.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/VS5EYSP4FPOTVQCJZ24NRE6Z2M Edgardo Mendoza

    BASTA BISHOPS TANGA!! TANGA!! BAKA NAMAN NAG TATANGA TANGAHAN!! O BULAG ANG DAMING BATANG HUBO!! BISHOPS TANGA!! TANGA!!

  • Jess

     The Catholic Church has become irrelevant. 

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/UZF4OTGY4BREFE42RXP7FZJKFY Ding

    NAKAKALUNGKOT ISIPIN…Ako ay Katoliko…I am pro-life, ang katotohanan niyan ipinakita sa akin ng actual experience…anim ang anak ko…pero, I was never against pro-choice…kaya ko nasabing malungkot. bakit hindi tanggapin ng mga namumuno sa simbahan ng nagdaan ang 13 mabigat na taon ng tunggalian bago maisa-batas ang RH bill, at nanaig ito sa isang democratikong pamamaraan?  Sila nga ang may kagustuhan ng mga nangyayaring pagkakabiyak-biyak ng mga Katoliko?  Hindi naman ang simbahan mismo ang nag-file ng protesta, ‘yon lang mga hindi pari, iyong mga abugado na hindi mga pari…hindi kaya nila alam na parang mga ‘pawn’ lang sila sa larong ‘chess’, puhunan para makapuesto ng maganda ang nagma-manipulate sa kanila?
     
    Unang pumalag ang Ateneo…sa gitna ng mga threats, nanindigan sila..kinampihan sila ng pinakamalaking organization ng mga Katoliko…tumahimik ang Catholic dictatorship.   Nag-issue ang Cebu bishop na hindi puwedeng gamitin ang pulpit laban sa mga RH lawmakers, and they cannot campaign against RH solons…DAPAT TAHIMIK NA ANG BANSA NGAYON, KUNG HINDI DAHIL LAMANG SA PROTESTA NG ILANG, NAKALULUNKOT TANGGAPIN, KATOLIKO.

    ANU’T ANUMAN ANG MANGYARI, HINDI MATITINAG ANG FAITH O ANG CATHOLICISM…IT WILL REMAIN UNMOVABLE EVEN AGAINST WORST IRRESISTIBLE FORCE THAT THE ENEMIES OF THE TRUE AND GENUINE FAITH CAN MUSTER.

  • disqusted0fu

    Cory and Ninoy Aquino ‘fought’ for democracy before. Now their son Pnoy is slowly and subtly bringing back what his parents fought against with.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/UZF4OTGY4BREFE42RXP7FZJKFY Ding

      Is Pnoy fighting against democracy?  In what way?
      Naiintindihan mo ba ang ang sinasabi mo.
      What you’re saying will bring you to same ending…again you will feel
      …………………………. DISGUSTED 0 FU ………………………………………
      …………………kaya pala may FU ang pangalan mo…………………………..

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_V7W2T7T2N37DLVYJSM2OV4GJ4A Ramon S

    Bakit ang simbahan ay gusto na maraming anak at ito ay isang dahilan na maghirap ang pamilya sila ay tuwang tuwa dahil sila ang pinakamayamang religion sa buong pilipinas mula pa spanish era hang gang ngayon lalong yumayaman at gusto rin nilang mamulubi boung mundo upang ibalik nila one world government na hinahawakan noon ng Roman Empire in the time of Christ in relation with Roman Catholic Vatican in our time bullions of gold was in their chamber dahil hawak nila sundalo at gobyerno noon.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/VS5EYSP4FPOTVQCJZ24NRE6Z2M Edgardo Mendoza

      OO GUS2 NILA MARAMI ANAK PARA PAKAKAININ NA INIHAW NA DAGA!!

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