Catholic bishops mull Muslim conversions after Arab Spring

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A Bishop arrives for the opening of the synod of bishops, at the Vatican, Monday, October 8, 2012. AP/Andrew Medichini

VATICAN CITY—Catholic bishops meeting for a global synod in the Vatican have been raising in public the delicate topic of converting Muslims to Christianity on the back of the Arab Spring revolutions.

“Something’s happening that is linked to the Arab Spring. People are asking questions, no longer satisfied by the common message in the mosques,” said Paul Desfarges, who has lived in Algeria for 38 years and became a bishop in 2009.

“Young people and the not-so-young want to be able to believe freely, they want to be free even to not believe at all,” he told a meeting of 260 bishops.

While the issue of converting Muslims had been raised at previous synods it is the first time that bishops have been speaking publicly about it, he said.

Desfarges told journalists that there had been newcomers to Christianity in his diocese but cautioned, “we don’t want to use conversions against Islam.”

“Some Algerians have asked to convert. They have to be very secret about it. They come to us after a very personal journey of faith: after a dream, a television programme, a film or a book,” he said.

“But that has to be the result of an internal questioning. We take all the time they need, in order to respect their liberty,” he added.

He said conversions posed problems for Muslim families: “For the average Muslim it’s unthinkable, unheard of. ‘What have we done to deserve this?’ cry the parents of children who have converted.”

While the Algerian Constitution provides for freedom of conscience, those who try to convert others to their religion can be prosecuted.

In other Muslim countries, abandoning your faith to embrace Christianity is severely punished and those found guilty can face the death penalty.

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  • ApoLapullapu

    Some Christians in the Philippines converted to Islam because of Arab petro-dollars. If not because of Islamic Fundamentalism, many Christians could have converted to Islam. Conversely, at the advent of Vatican II when Roman Catholics no longer call other sects Heretics, many from other sects including Islam have converted to Roman Catholicism. The concept of only one true God having different names depending on one’s language is now universally understood.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_BL2GYU35SO6HTJUEAUTXS3QFYM George Lapulapu

      Apo, I can not agree more on this.

  • Platypus09

    Nice, converting Muslims to Catholicism.

    I like that. There will be more.

    Good for them. This is where the Holy Spirit shone upon them.

    It is a great move by them. They have all my support.

  • carlorocci

    Desfarges told journalists that there had been newcomers to Christianity in his diocese but cautioned, “we don’t want to use conversions against Islam.”
    Correction please CATHOLICISM not Chirstianity. Christianity is different from Catholicism, specially in the way of worshipping God.

    • Platypus09

      Correction: I disagree.

      It’s about time.

    • http://twitter.com/erncastillo ern

      A very unchristian comment. Who do you think you are? You play too much with words. Give respect to others and let people worship the way they feel at peace with God. Catholicism is the root of christianity, and without looking back, you are one idiot and hypocrite.

      • WeAry_Bat

         I remember decades ago during college when born-agains(t) were the rage.  I was aghast to hear that they considered regular catholics as destined to go to hell because they were not born-again christians. 

        Even up to now, I feel bad about it because I know the we-against-them is the usual ploy of new entities to create loyalty and gain converts.  I have never read Jesus damming other people, in fact, it was much interpreted what was said and written, ‘even those not among the flock.’ 

        This was pertaining to people who may or may not be catholics or christians but still ethically and morally living the life.

      • carlorocci

        It is other away around my dear……There is no Catholicism if there is no Christianity…..

        And who is hypocrite, calling you friars a father?

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IWSC74JRY6R3OJ6DO4XJUWECS4 paranoid_penguin

        Go to hell Carlo….I am waiting for you….wahahaha

      • Cruxofthematter

        The greatest folly a man can ever do is to deceive himself. If a man makes a comment without opening a single page of Zaide (not him actually), and discover that the word “Catholicism” did not even exist after a few hundred years AFTER CHRIST, then he is deceiving himself. Look for the word “Christian” in the bible which has been written for a period of 1600 years and know the truth. Being born a Catholic, bred and taught in it does not necessarily mean you are correct. Read the facts, do not be hasty in making opinionated comments.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IWSC74JRY6R3OJ6DO4XJUWECS4 paranoid_penguin

      Carlo….magbasa ka muna..kung saan nangaling yung Relihiyon mo ngayon….whatever born-again Christian you are! di kayo naging “kristiyano kuno” kung hindi nakipaglaban ang mga katoliko during the crusade…Christianity would never have been existed…

      • carlorocci

        Read your own Catholic bilble so you will be enlighten…..

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IWSC74JRY6R3OJ6DO4XJUWECS4 paranoid_penguin

        no comment Carlo…no comment…lol

    • Dan Carlo Rieta

      Christianity is used instead of Catholicism because the main Christian Churches in the Arab regions are Coptic, Melkite, Assyrians, Maronites and Greek Orthodox Churches… The concern of the synod does not only imply to the conversion of muslims to catholicism but to Christian Churches with Apostolic Succession such as the Roman Church, The Orthodox Churches, and some might argue the Anglican church etc… As for example the defacto head of the orthodox church Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew spoke at synod as well has Archbishop Rowan Williams of the Anglican Church   

  • fict_2point0

    Sheer Catholic hubris, what else? What do we expect from a church that turns into a saint a person who had been instrumental in the disrespectful and forced conversion of indigenous people into Catholicism? This is a church that demonizes anything and everything that does not bow down to the throne of the Pope. Appalling.  

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/Y6LZ6K2WGJFBDVHQNYGAOXJX5U Lambert

       Really? I respect your opinion. But you know what? It reveals a lot about you…

      • fict_2point0

        Yes, thank you.

        But well, a disclaimer: Islamists who are adamant at imposing their repressive and oppressive interpretations of the Qur’an on entire nations (e.g., Iran — and really, I wish the 2009 Green Revolution in Tehran had succeeded) are equally appalling. 

        Point is: There is always violence in every attempt or action of imposing any religious (or political, or ideological — what-have-yous) beliefs on people. Ergo, perhaps the best thing every church has to do, if it cannot suppress, even for  brief moment, its (unconscious?) arrogance and self-righteousness, is to shut up. They’ve wielded so much power anyway.

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/Y6LZ6K2WGJFBDVHQNYGAOXJX5U Lambert

         So what do you suggest we do? Who should we listen to? By the way, I have not heard of any Christian church using violence to spread its message for quite a while.

      • fict_2point0

        Nah, I’ve read so much of friar-committed violence in my Philippine history classes. And I’ve heard of witch-hunting and the Inquisition in Europe during the Dark Ages. How many “heretics” suffered torture and death at the hands of the Roman Catholic Church? And violence need not be physical. There is such a thing called symbolic violence. 

        What do we do? I don’t know. I can only suggest for myself. Who am I to tell others what to do or whom to listen to? Why are we always looking for a person to listen to, in the first place? Aren’t we capable of deciding things for ourselves on our own? 

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/Y6LZ6K2WGJFBDVHQNYGAOXJX5U Lambert

         We cannot know everything can we? When we don’t feel well don’t we go to a doctor? When we want a house built don’t we consult engineers and architects? You yourself listened to your history teachers. Did you try to verify all that you were taught? Did you do some little bit of research? Or did you just accept everything you were taught?

        Like I said you reveal a lot about yourself with what you have written.

      • fict_2point0

        Of course we CAN’T possibly know everything. And you are absolutely right: we NEED to listen to a lot of people because we can’t live alone; our identity and our very life emerge from our being embedded in a complex mesh of human and non-human relationships. (And yes, I did and do research beyond the classroom.) But, errr, that’s just not my point. 

      • http://profile.yahoo.com/Y6LZ6K2WGJFBDVHQNYGAOXJX5U Lambert

        I guess you can write as well as you do but somehow your message does not seem to add up…

      • fict_2point0

        Nice discussing with you anyway. :)

    • Rigoberto_Doronila

       I think you just demonized everything Catholic too.
      It hurts to see yourself in the mirror, no?

  • boyod

    bakit nag render nang salute yung guard sa bishop, wala talaga itong mga katoliko. bakit si st peter ba nag salute ki JESUS CHRIST

    • Platypus09

      Why are you bothered by the Catholics?

      No matter how you, too liberated and unorthodox born again Christians, would wish, Catholicism will stay even for thousands of years more, whether you like it or not.

      Catholicism has survived for two thousands of years, even in the midst of the proliferation of Protestant religions, even for several centuries that had passed.

      It will continue to flourish and thrive.

      It’s strength has been tested with so many religious wars in the past, and it continues to exist.

      I would like to stick with Catholicism as it remains stronger every single time. Not even the Anglican Church of the Queen of England can topple Catholicism.

      Catholicism has been tested to be the real one.

      So born again Christians, you need to go back to the Catholic church and confess your sins doing the Sacrament of Penance.

      • andrew lim

        My questions then:

        1.  Why is the pattern of migration of Filipinos towards non-Catholic dominated countries? (US, UK, Australia, Canada, Europe, etc)

        2.  Related to no.1, why is there more prosperity in non-Catholic dominated countries, and more poverty in Catholic dominated ones?

        3.  Why do non-Catholic countries have lesser corruption levels than Catholic ones?(ref: Transparency Intl Corruption Index 2011 and past yrs)

        4. Why do justice systems and law enforcement seem to be work better in non-Catholic countries than in Catholic ones?

        If Catholicism is the “true” one, then why is quality of life in general is lower in Catholic dominated countries? 

        Nobody wants to topple any religion. Dont be paranoid. People will just leave it voluntarily.

      • xrisp

        Success in life is not measured by material prosperity. Christ did not choose to be born in a luxurious environment or a wealthy family. If we call ourselves Christians and really embrace Christianity, rest assured of so many trials along the way because that’s the only way Christ could test our faith in Him. Could we imagine a Christain life without trials or sufferings! If we prefer it this way, how could we even share in the sufferings of Christ in His redemptive works for us? To quote a spiritual writer: “The reign of Christ is not a crown to wear but a cross to carry.”

      • andrew lim

        I anticipated this kind of answer. That’s how dictators and corrupt leaders justify the suffering of their governed people.

        No wonder corruption in Catholic countries is so difficult to curb!

        So suffering must be sought because it will send us to heaven?  So we should welcome poverty and injustice and do nothing about it because the suffering will lead to salvation?

        So we should shun economic devt and a better quality of life?

      • xrisp

        When Christ came into this world, there were so many sufferings and injustices but He did not end them to exist because that’s not the meaning of His coming. One, He wanted people, regardless of situation one is in, to experience the LIBERATING POWER of the GOSPEL – from sickness, poverty, injustices, and whatever man-made sufferings we could think of.  
        If we accept that we are sinners then, indeed, it will only be through sufferings we could work our salvation.
        Of course we should not shun economic development and better quality of life. Who then shall be responsible? We can do our part …and most importantly PRAY and TRUST in GOD that He could still change the situation in our country.

      • tamumd

        Yet those bishops and the pope live like princes and king in their airconditioned rooms, 5 meals a day, chauffer and cook and maid and butler.What a bunch of hypocrites!

      • poltergeist_fuhrer

        with ur number 2 question…ill ask u also…

        why thsoe catholic countries years/centuries ago were more prosperous than japan, china, india, etc..(US, AUstralia and Canada was not yet discovered then)

      • poltergeist_fuhrer

        in general, you are simply affirming that this church is the church of the poor…what is important is the riches of the next life, not here

      • andrew lim

        then why not jump over to the next life right away?

      • poltergeist_fuhrer

        ikaw muna ang mauna…cge na please!!!

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_E3CE56OQVPC4RPYD2NR4VD3SUE Bert

        ur too smart kid…..i like…hehe

  • tarikan

    Give me liberty or give me death. From a muslim: Give me freedom of religion or give me death. Sure they will give you death. 

  • UrHONOR

    >>>“Something’s happening that is linked to the Arab Spring. People are asking questions, no longer satisfied by the common message in the mosques,” said Paul Desfarges, who has lived in Algeria for 38 years and became a bishop in 2009.<<<

    People are asking questions, no longer satisfied by the common message in RCchurches.

    You can see the mote in thy brother's eye and you don't see the beam before your eyes?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OHOD5EA75DBBUH53UKLRXRK764 Mang Teban

    While I receive the news of a personal observation by a Catholic bishop on some Algerians converting to Catholicism as something positive for the unity of the believers of the One God, I am also concerned about Filipino Catholics in particular straying away from the Church.

    No less than the Manila Archbishop Chito Tagle and a few others have expressed the same concern about the lukewarm attitude of some Filipino Catholics towards defending their faith. This is the reason why Pope Benedict XVI has called for the synod and declared a whole year from October 11 this year till next as the Year of Faith. The bishops all over the world will be sharing their observations and the Philippines which is the largest Catholic population in the largest continent, Asia, will definitely be one of the main agenda for the bishops to discuss how these concerns on faith can be addressed.

    Much needs to be done to shepherd back the lost sheep. As for the Arabs taking a look at Catholicism, it is by God’s grace and the work of His Holy Spirit that these unexpected conversions are happening. Instead of merely waiting what the bishops have agreed to implement after the synod, it is incumbent on each and every Filipino Catholic to do his or her share now to strengthen the bond of unity in the family in Christ Jesus.

    • tamumd

      Keep dreaming Mang Teban….not “every Filipino Catholic” are that naive anymore. In fact significant of them are leaving in droves. lol

    • poltergeist_fuhrer

      this tamumd is so lost…his presence here tells on the rise of satanism

      • tamumd

        Define ‘satanism”?

      • poltergeist_fuhrer

        you are the definition of it…

      • tamumd

        how? Coz I don’t believe in any deity…more so a caricatured dark guy with a tail, red eyes and holding a trident. lol

      • poltergeist_fuhrer

        ill repeat this to you again…

        the grand design of satan is to make people believe that there is no heaven or hell…and u tell me that again..you simply affirmed on what you are…

        so, my contention is correct, that u r the definition of what is satanism is

      • tamumd

        What is your definite evidence that heaven and hell exist? If you can convince me then I’ll acquiese. Until then..you’re like telling me gnomes and tooth fairy exist in some underworld. That’s so caricature-like…almost like a chapter in children’s fantasy books.

      • poltergeist_fuhrer

        What is your definite evidence that heaven and hell exist

        ill throw back the question…

        y there is no heaven or earth?

      • tamumd

        Nope….you are on the affirmative. The onus is upon you to prove the existence of heaven and hell.

        No earth?..I know there’s earth. I am living in it right now and so are you!

      • poltergeist_fuhrer

        earth is a visual construct..it is unreal

      • tamumd

        Hahahaha..all those catholic indoctrination renders you out of touch of reality! You’re unreal for sure.

      • poltergeist_fuhrer

        i thought u believe in postmodernism…that is postmodernist thought..not even a catholic doctrine…seems u r ignorant of many things…

      • tamumd

        Show me concrete evidence that I once told you that I believe in postmodernism liar!

      • IanAlera

        tamumd,

        “I would rather live my life as if there is a God,
        And die to find out there isn’t, than live my life
        As if there isn’t, and die to find out there is.”

        Tamumd, think about it.

      • tamumd

        Ah the infamous Pascal’s wager! lol By subscribing to that mentality..is being intellectually and spiritually dishonest. It shows that you’re second guessing your belief itself! You are not 100% sure of what you believe in,so you are betting on the “safe’ side.

      • IanAlera

        tamumd,

        No doubt that small minds like yours can conjure only idiotic rejoinders. Really, your conjectures has nothing of value.

    • Rigoberto_Doronila

       It’s all in the proper grounding in the family and local church.
      I, too, once strayed, not exactly converted (because I thought all the others are even bigger rackets).
      I strayed because I swallowed the Hollywood and media line “Only pleasure matters, or if it feels good, do it” hook, line and sinker.
      I found out it only brought me superficial happiness. True happiness is found in the Lord Jesus Christ, and his bride, his Church.
      Now, I love our separated Christian brothers, even the atheists. But sometimes, personal attacks against the Church just gets to me. I just take comfort in the Lord’s assurance, the gates of hell will not prevail upon his Church, and that he will be with his followers, until the end of days.

  • Julio7

    And will the Muslim community believes this report from Agence France-Presse?
     
    Indeed, the Christian’s missionary had failed spreading Christianity. So they changed their stategy – media hype.

  • jaciagar

    Filipinos might not be aware of it, but this has a bearing on the RH Bill. Catholic bishops are actually playing the numbers game when they profess to ban population control as a sin, when in fact they just want Catholics to increase in number to oppose the burgeoning Muslim population. If Muslims convert to Christianity, the numbers would greatly favor the Christians, so then population control with the use of condoms & contraceptives would become acceptable to them. Haleluaih! to the Arab Spring!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_EDXEVEFHW2ZT5VWHDWBNM6XGE4 RyanE

    “Young people and the not-so-young want to be able to believe freely,
    they want to be free even to not believe at all,” – Bishop Paul Desfarges

    Good for you there in Algeria. Here in the PHL, bishops are imposing their medieval beliefs to their parishioners..

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_E3CE56OQVPC4RPYD2NR4VD3SUE Bert

      but to true believers and followers of the faith, the imposition doesn’t matter…..

      • tamumd

        Sure you wanna start it? why don’t you start in Algeria or Egypt maybe..but be prepared to lose your head. lol

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_E3CE56OQVPC4RPYD2NR4VD3SUE Bert

        didn’t the above post say, “imposing their medieval beliefs to their parishioners..”? It’s certainly not Algeria or Egypt, right? Get my drift?

      • tamumd

        But he said those in the Philippine context. He said ‘here in the Philippines, bishops are imposing their medieval beliefs on to parashioners”. In other words you cannot do that in muslim countries even in moderate states as Algeria and Egypt. So far those are the benign places where Arab Spring had been taking place. You wanna try Yemen? or Libya? lol

  • East_Islander

    Still freedom of religion should be ensured in the Muslim-denominated countries.

    • poltergeist_fuhrer

      it iwll never be ensured…there is no freedom in these countries…

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/TP6YY66XPT63YFGHDKYTMIO4CM Daniel

    It is much better to hear Muslims convert to the Catholic faith…….but, it is far more greater if Muslims convert to Christianity.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/Y6LZ6K2WGJFBDVHQNYGAOXJX5U Lambert

       I guess the message of the Catholic Church is very attractive to them. As it is for a lot of people all over the world…

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/S5THVXI2LL6MIOAIAPO6MSVR4U Maverick

    Start worshiping IDOLS

  • Pablo316

    While it is true as some Muslims brag that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, but it is only in terms of population growth but in terms of conversion rate, Christianity is gaining more than Islam.
     
    This news feature conversion to Roman Catholicism only nevertheless the same trend have been going on for some time in other Christian groups as well, in fact youtube is flooded with such touching testimonies from Muslims who converted to Christianity even without the facilities of pastors, evangelists or priests. In their dreams and spiritual encounters, it is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself who invited them in.
     
    I myself was converted to Christianity without any pastor proselytizing me, but the word of God does show the Truth that does sets people free.
     
    So let me urge my fellow Christian believers, do not uphold your particular group to the derailment of the true Gospel, but rather knowing what the Bible really says about God’s amazing saving grace in the Gospel or Good News we should defend and share it.
     
    And God’s amazing saving grace in the Gospel is this:
     
    BELIEVE IN THE DEATH AND RESURRECTION OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND REPENT OF YOUR SINS AND YOU WILL BE SAVED.
     
    Other than that message it is already becoming a false gospel and worse you will end up believing in vain that is why the Bible sternly warns us:
     
    “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!” (Galatians 1:8-9)
     
    God bless people, read and live the Bible’s teachings!

  • akimaxx

    This article led me to search for Muslims converted to Christianity. On You tube, search for these names;
    1) Faisal Malick, a Pakistani businessman,
    2) Khalida Wukawitz, a praise and worship leader
    3) Dr. Daniel Shayesteh, an Iranian former activist fighting against Jews and Christians.
    4) Pastor Yousef Nadarkhani, imprisoned 4 years for apostasy, just released recently.

    Watch their full testimonies and see how they were converted to true Christianity. Their lives were like what Apostle Paul’s experienced when confronted by our Lord Jesus Christ. I still have few names to search. I’ll announce them later. 

    • tamumd

      Add 4 more..that’ll be a total of 8. lol

      • poltergeist_fuhrer

        uy, kaibigan..andiyan ka na naman…basta catholic ang issue, nagigising ka

      • tamumd

        Nope….I’m around. Here with RH, Sotto’s plagiarism, Cybercrime bill and Sin tax bill. lol

      • poltergeist_fuhrer

        haha..liar

      • tamumd

        Why would I lie? You can check all my rejoinders in my profile.

      • poltergeist_fuhrer

        dont pretend

      • tamumd

        Again why would I lie and pretend. If you don’t believe me I told you to check my rejoinders the past 6 months for you to see. Maybe you’re a “pretender”…I am not.

    • Julio7

      On the other side, I will help you too;

      Kareem Abdul-Jabbar – a basketball player which was known as Lew.
      Mohammad Ali – formerly Casius – a famous boxer in history.
      Abudullah Ibn Buhaira – american Jazz musician, was named Arthur
      Dave Chapelle – american comedian and TV star
      Jimmy Cliff – Jamaican musician
      Yusuf Estes – formerly Christian preacher
      Knud Holmboe – Danish journalist
      Chris Eubank – famous British boxer
      Peter Murphy – a rock group singer
      Richard Thopson – a british musician
      Malcom X – american black leader
      Cat Stevens, English singer now known as Yusuf Islam
      Mos Def – American rapper and actor
      Bizzy Bone – american rapper
      O’Shea Jackson also know as Ice Cube – american rapper and actor
      Larry Johnson – famous preofessional NBA player
      Lauren Booth – Tony Blair’s sister in law
      Mike Tyson – a famous boxer (forget about his unislamic attitute)..

      and the latest is Janet Jackson conversion to muslim because of her proposed marriage to billionaire Wissam Al Mana..

      and more…more..coming to Islam

      • poltergeist_fuhrer

        and double are getting out from islam…

        browse

        fa ithfreedom dot org

        and ull see they are former imams

      • Rigoberto_Doronila

         How many of them converted in prison?

      • Bonggebongge

        well we never know how and why they coming to Islam…gaya nga ng sabi mo si Janet Jackson kasi magpapakasal lang sa bilyonaryo…nakakaawa naman sila…after life papano na…?  karaniwan Rock musicians, rapper etc…nakikiuso lang marahil…muhamad ali turn to islam due to unwanted military service during those time, o ano na sya ngayun? Cat Stevens..hangan ngayun naman hinahanap nya pa sarili nya…and so on and so forth…

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/7US4SIEZOJLP4A3BQLYYDY6UWQ Kim

    Biblically Christianity is totally different from catholicsm.

    • poltergeist_fuhrer

      better read history and on how the word catholic came about as you can compare with other christian religion..they are more unbiblical…

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_E3CE56OQVPC4RPYD2NR4VD3SUE Bert

      That’s according to non-Catholics, but Catholicism is the only Christian religion which can trace its roots from the time of Christ. But non-Catholic Christians trace its origin from Catholicism as break-aways…

      • poltergeist_fuhrer

        correct…

        orthodox broke to mainstream christianlity led by bishop cerularius and does not want to recognize the papacy in rome…

        protestants broke in 15th century from catholicism led by the priest named luther…calvin followed and many others…

        in the philippines…

        aglipayans broke led by bishop aglipay

        INC broke led by manalo

        born again groups started 1960s….

        now, who is the true church???

        trace the roots of your church…for sure, it started too late…and your founder established it cos galit sa isang pari, galit sa pope, gusto mag asawa kahit pari, gusto yumaman, nakabasa lang ng bibliya (na akala mo siya na ang pinakamarunong, defying aged old teachings)

      • edmanuel

        How true!  While the Catholics have missions to convert pagans and non-Christians to become Christians, the non-Catholic Christians are trying their best to convert Catholics to their side.  And to do this, these non-Catholic Christians have to resort to demonizing Catholics.

  • poltergeist_fuhrer

    this is what im telling that islam is the religion of satan…

  • poltergeist_fuhrer

    if u want to see how sa tanists islam is browse dis…

    fa ith freedom dot org

    • joboni96

      ako
      different strokes for different folks

      as long as
      you’re connected to god

  • joboni96

    concentrate on maintaining mga katoliko

    gagawa lang kayo ng kaguluhan

    inc malakas ang membership growth
    the best pilipino export

    • poltergeist_fuhrer

      iglesia ni kulafu na huwad na relihiyon…ang yayaman ng mga pastor ninyo…

      at pag gawa lang ng pagawa kau ng simbahan…

      matanong nga mr inc…

      bakit ang kapilya ninyo sa bubong ang estilo ay parang trident…tatlong poimted na pillars..isa sa gitna at 2 sa magkabilang side sa harapan ng building…dba simbolo yan ng satanismo???at kung makakita kayo ng cross para kaung sinisilabahan…mga satanismo nga kayo..

      • joboni96

        di ba trinity yon sa katoliko

        sorry po
        di ako dumadaan sa pari
        direkta panalangin ko

        ma child abuse pa ako

      • poltergeist_fuhrer

        kitid ng utak…

        para ka palang sinto sinto, nagsasalita walang kausap…

      • joboni96

        di ka pala marunong manalangin

        stick with your padre damasos

      • poltergeist_fuhrer

        sino bang padre damaso? u still believe in fiction..get real!

      • joboni96

        kilalang kilala mo yan

    • East_Islander

       naku di lang alam ng mga miyembro ng Iglesia ni Cristo ang kanilang relihiyon naka rehistro sa Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC). Ibig sabihin ini-rehistro ang Iglesia ni Cristo sa SEC kasama ng ibang mga negosyo dito sa Pilipinas katulad ng PLDT, SMC at iba pa. Ibig sabihin ay negosyo nila Manalo ang Iglesia ni Cristo at ang mga nakukulekta nila sa mga miyembro ang kanilang revenues na pinaghati-hatian ng pamilya Manalo at kanilang mga pastor. Tingnan mo, puro Manalo ang CEO nila.

      • joboni96

        mas maalam ka siguro sa inc

        ang alam ko lang
        limpak limpak na salapi
        ang pinapadala ng mga bishops
        sa vatican
        matagal na

        at least
        panay pagawa ng sambahan
        ang inc

      • ViktorAleksandr

        ilang simbahan ba ang kailangang imaintain ng katoliko? ilang charities ba ang pinapatakbo ng katoliko?

        eh ang inc ba madaming charity? ang space ship niyo nga na mga kapilya ayaw niyong papasukan ng mga binaha eh.
         

      • poltergeist_fuhrer

        INC ka pala…no wonder ganuon ka kitid ang utak mo…

  • Pablo316

    It should be noted that salvation is personal rather than corporate, as it has always been said by Bible-believing Christians: religion will not save you but rather a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ will.
     
    A person who professes to be a Christian yet never in his personal life realized that he is helpless before God because of his sins and that his only hope is the grace of God in the Gospel extended thru the Lord Jesus Christ – he hasn’t yet experienced how it is to be a Christian in the true sense of the word.
     
    As long as a person trusts in some other ways to make him righteous before God or tries to gain entry to heaven by his own effort and worst by his religious affiliation, that person as the Bible says, is still far from the grace of God and he is but believing in vain. Sincerity is good but it should be based on the Truth of the Bible.
     
    The Bible teaches that righteousness comes only thru the Lord Jesus Christ. Christians were saved not because they have done good works but they were saved in order to do good works which God prepared for them in advance and not the other way around. This amazing truth is embedded in what we call the Gospel or Good News – the reason why it was called that way because indeed it is such very good news to the world.
     
    Let us go back to the truth of the Bible my fellow-believers in Christ, for the time is truly near when the Lord Jesus Christ will reveal Himself in the sight of the whole world while gathering His saints to Him.
     
    God bless! (For brevity’s sake I did not include Bible verses showing those facts I wrote above.)

    • poltergeist_fuhrer

      yours is the teaching of born against…kasi hindi ninyo ma trace ang origin ninyo to the church established by christ…so, you would say that there is no need for religion for a person to be saved…hahaa…dami ninyong mga palusot mga born against…you are always making convenient excuses just to fit your teachings and going against the one established by christ..pathetic!!!

      • Pablo316

        Now let me tackle this issue with you because we are all aware of the preposterous claims being peddled by fanatic Roman Catholics that they own the Bible thus they have the only right to dispense with it and that RCC was founded by the Lord Jesus Christ in 33 AD, and so on and so forth.
         
        All of those are baloney at best, because if one is serious enough to study history objectively, not blinded by religious biases, one will find out the following facts:
         
        1.Concerning the claims that RCC owns the Bible, we should refer to one of RCC’s favorite church historian, in fact he is dubbed as the Father of Christian History, he is Eusebius of Caesarea who lived circa 264 AD. Now Eusebius in his many books made regarding the history of Christianity, he started right from the very beginning (in fact he started from the prophecy of the Old Testament), he referred to Christian historians who are much earlier than him, for example Origen (ca.184 AD) who in turn referred to a much earlier Christian historians such as Irenaeus (ca. 130 AD), Tertullian (ca. 160 AD) and Philo (ca. 20 BC for the books in the Old Testament). Now Eusebius will tell you that those earlier historians did compiled books that were already in circulation even during the lifetime of the apostles themselves, in the latter part of their lives. In fact Origen even goes far as to make translations of the books in the Bible in several languages side by side.
         
        But then why should we even rely on the historians that came immediately after the apostles when the Bible thru the apostles themselves testifies that those books in the Bible is already widely read and circulated during their lifetime.
         
        Here the Apostle Paul speaking:
         
        “After this letter has been read to you, see that it is also read in the church of the Laodiceans and that you in turn read the letter from Laodicea.” (Colossians 4:16)
         
        And also the apostle Peter himself commenting here after he read all of Apostle Paul’s writings:
         
        “He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.” (2 Peter 3:16)
         
        So what the RCC guys back in 300’s only did is to finally decide that those books they had – to the exclusions of some apocryphal books (which some apocryphal books they set aside by the way is only apocryphal as to the authenticity of their authorship but not necessarily in their contents while some are clearly demonic in nature) is to say this is it, this is really is it!
         
        2. Now concerning the Church (not the Roman Catholic Church) was indeed founded by the Lord Jesus Christ on a Rock foundation, who’s Rock is no other than the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.
         
        Note: That Rock or Stone is not the Apostle Peter who RCC claims to be their first pope by flaunting Matthew 16:18-19 whereas it was the apostle Peter himself who identified who that Stone or Rock is. Listen to him:
         
        “As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by human beings but chosen by God and precious to him— you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For in Scripture it says:
        “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in himwill never be put to shame.”
        Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, “The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” and, “A stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall.”
        They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.” (1 Peter 2:4-8)
         
        Now understandably this will hurt but that is what the truth is, but once you realized the veracity of it that there is no Roman Catholic Church in existence back in 33 AD, unless you want to re-write history like some cults did. RCC was created by pagan Rome in 325 AD and that by a pagan emperor in a pagan setting. What happened is more of a paganized Christianity rather than Christianized paganism.
         
        So you see people only ignorant people can afford to peddle ignorant talks, as the Bible says:
         
        “But these people blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like unreasoning animals, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like animals they too will perish.” (2 Peter 2:12)

      • poltergeist_fuhrer

        u based ur refutation on the writings of paul…and during paul’s time there was no bible yet…(i am talking of the bible that is already complete with OT and NT)… paul’s time, there is only the OT…no NT yet…

        and these bishops complied the NT…talked each other what to include or not…EXAMPLE: there are many gospels, not only 4…why in the bible there is only 4…the question is, does paul knows about this???goodness, u must have a problem in history

      • poltergeist_fuhrer

        on the second item..why not base it from the gospel where Jesus himself refer to peter as the rock…you would rather quote paul than Jesus himself…hahahajust to obscure realities and fit your objection against catholic claim…pathetic

      • Pablo316

        RCC was indeed created by pagan Rome in 325 AD and that by a pagan emperor in a pagan setting. Besides it was only the majority (meaning not all) of the nominal Christians of that time that succumbed to the enticement of the pagan world. This resulted in the adulterous marriage between nominal Christian groups and the carnal and pagan world (in the person of the Roman Empire represented by Constantine).
         
        While this happened minority Christians like the Novatians (ca. 250 AD), the Donatists (ca. 311 AD) and the Arians (ca. 300 AD) and others were persecuted and demonized by the newly formed Roman Catholic Church, which is by the way first Roman, second Catholic or universal (no contest about that) and third Church but not necessarily a Christian one.
         
        RCC even falsely claimed that they are the only church of the Lord Jesus Christ whereas when the Lord Jesus wrote personal letters to His churches (note ‘churches’ meaning plural’) with each letter containing merits and demerits for each church (a further proof that they are different churches), the Lord never ever mentioned the Roman Catholic Church specifically by name. Whereas anyone who will study the Bible will come to the conclusion that RCC best represents the ‘Famous Prostitute’ describe in the Bible.
        Thus what happened is more of a paganized Christianity rather than Christianized paganism.
        Kid kindly read more, you are but displaying your utter ignorance, you cannot do it by just tantrums and insults, you have to learn more.

      • poltergeist_fuhrer

        Besides it was only the majority (meaning not all) of the nominal Christians of that time that succumbed to the enticement of the pagan world.

        yes…there were xtians who prefer not to follow the mainstream…many are gnostics…and many were heretics…and u belong to one of them???

      • poltergeist_fuhrer

        His churches (note ‘churches’ meaning plural’

        —————–

        these churches cited in the bible were the churches established by the disciples of christ, by the apostles of the disciples of christ…these chruches refers to christian communities..in rome, in ephesus, in galatia, in alexandria, in collosus in india and many other EARLY christican communities which PAUL wrote to some of these churches…so what is your point???further proof that they are different churches???u mean the church in rome (which paul wrote of) the church of epehsus (which paul also wrote of) and many others are different???u r obscuring the history…a lie..a blatant lie just to fit ur teachings..unfortunately, u interpret the bible LITERALLY

      • poltergeist_fuhrer

        Whereas anyone who will study the Bible will come to the conclusion that RCC best represents the ‘Famous Prostitute’ describe in the Bible.
        Thus what happened is more of a paganized Christianity rather than Christianized paganism.

        ———–

        all the bibles’ origin came from RCC..it was the bshops who compiled and selected what gsopels to include, put numbers as verses and chapters…

        hence, if u say that RCC is a prosti…
        and the RCC where the responsible of the bible…
        and ur church use the same bible that RCC handed from one generation to another…

        HENCE, YOU ARE ALSO A PROSTITUTE…AND YOU PROSTITUTED MORE THE BIBLE JUST TO SATISFY…i repeat, TO SATISFY your vengeance and anger to RCC and to FIT what you teach…NOW, WHO IS MORE PROSTITUTE…IT IS YOU!!

      • poltergeist_fuhrer

        Now understandably this will hurt but that is what the truth is, but once you realized the veracity of it that there is no Roman Catholic Church in existence back in 33 AD

        —–

        yes, there was no catholic word yet then…
        but the practices of the early christians then were the same as what catholics are doing now…

      • poltergeist_fuhrer

        created by pagan rome???

        as history tells, these christian people were killed by pagan rome

      • Pablo316

        You know I really pity you, you never outgrew the teachings of your local catechists and rely only on hubris to make your point.
         
        Didn’t I tell you that only ignorant people can afford to peddle around ignorant talks, but those who do know they can say that all your preposterous claims are chutzpah!
         
        This is already the age of information; do yourself a favor by getting informed.

      • poltergeist_fuhrer

        and infos in the net does not fit what you are talking here…google on what is the hsitory of the bible and it will tell you who among us is telling the truth…

    • poltergeist_fuhrer

      Truth of the Bible.
      what truth??

      truth uphold by born again pastors???born againnst existed last 1960s…andun ba sila nuong panahon ni kristo to witness the truth…

      ahh, ull say that the truth is in the bible…but, why christians are using the bible but each religion have its own interpretation…now, who among them telling the truth???should we entrust the truth that they say it is the truth to some gropus who just existed last 1960s or 1914(INC) or 1902(aglipayan) or protestants(15th century) or you???and you who possess the truth???kailangan mo tsong ng mental hospital…the next thing ull say, the holy spirit is in you…hahaha

    • poltergeist_fuhrer

      A person who professes to be a Christian yet never in his personal life realized that he is helpless before God because of his sins and that his only hope is the grace of God in the Gospel extended thru the Lord Jesus Christ – he hasn’t yet experienced how it is to be a Christian in the true sense of the word.

      ————————

      that statement of yours is

      a sola gratia teaching and sola fide teaching by protestants…

      i thought you have no religion but you prefer the teachings of protestants and born again groups…haha..LIAR!!!

      • Pablo316

        “Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.” (Isaiah 5:20)
         
        “But when grace is shown to the wicked, they do not learn righteousness; even in a land of uprightness they go on doing evil and do not regard the majesty of the Lord.” (Isaiah 26:10)

  • seaglass2401belle

    NOW ,WHEN YOU SAY THAT RELIGION IS BAD OR SATANIC..
    DO YOU HEAR A MUSLIM SAY..YOUR GOD WAS HUMAN ..TRINITY IS CONFUSING YET NO CLEAR ANSWER CAN BE GIVEN???
     
    WHEN YOU SAY ISLAM IS SATANIC…IT ONLY MIRRORS WHAT YOUR RELIGION IS….
     
    RELIGION IS PERSONAL….
    UNLESS YOU ARE A MUSILM..ONLY YOU KNOW
     
    IF TRINITY CAN BE UNDERSTOOD
    ONLY YOU KNOW..
     
    SO STOP ATTACKING OTHER RELIGION UNLESS YOU really KNOW!!!
     
    WE HAVE PEOPLE CONVERTING TO CHRISTIANITY
    WE HAVE PEOPLE CONVERTING TO ISLAM
     
    NO AMOUNT OF CRITISCISM WILL CHANGE IT….
    ITS PERSONAL UNDERSTANDING AND ACCEPTANCE
     
    NO CONVERTS WILL BE WILLING TO ACCEPT RELIGION IF IT IS REALLY SATANIC
     
    SO WHATEVER COMES OUT FROM YOUR MOUTH SAYS ALOT WHAT YOUR RELGION teaches YOU.

    • poltergeist_fuhrer

      Literally, Islam IS the Satan’s religion.

       

      The Hebrew word for Lucifer in Isaiah 12:14 is “Hilal
      ben Sahar” Hilal also means “the brightness” and in
      Aramaic/Arabic it means “crescent moon”.

       

      “Hilal” means “The shining one” in
      Hebrew and Arabic and in

      Ethiopian it means “Moon Crescent”. Allah is a
      Moon God.

       

      Satan is also an angel of the light (2 Cor. 11:14) —
      Gabriel appreared to Moho as an angel of the light

       

      Star and crescent – symbols of Pagan Babylon and Rome.

       

      Allah is not the same god of the Jews – El – “the
      unending neverending”

      The Hebrew word for Lucifer in Isaiah 12:14 is “Hilal
      ben Sahar” Hilal also means “the brightness” and in
      Aramaic/Arabic it means “crescent moon”.

       

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/SYG36KOOLRY47VA3ICPJJ5CQTQ ADD

    How would you know the right religion group? The teachings should be morally correct for a human being, has a scientific approach (not theory), and most of all, which a lot of groups don’t have – common sense. You’ll be amaze that what you are doing for the longest time are senseless.

    Christians are not all Roman Catholics, but Roman Catholics said they are Christians.

    If the so-called prophet only gains (financial, women, power) from the group, move out of that as you are just wasting your time and MONEY.

     

    • poltergeist_fuhrer

      tell me of a group which does not give MONEY to their pastors…in many forms like donations, tithes, alms..etc..

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/7GU6GZUKVLULSAWKX4ECMQOSSM Peace

    Why I Chose Islam: A story of a priest who reverted to
    Islam, it is based on a True Story.

     

    By: M. Emery

     

    Introduction

    O seeker of truth, if you really seek the truth put aside
    all preconceived notions, and open your heart…do not let others judge or make a
    decision for you. This being said, I would like to share with you this
    beautiful account of a man’s journey to the truth…I believe it be best if he
    narrates his account to us himself, so I will leave you with Mr. Thomas…

     

    I begin with
    the name of Allah, the Most Merciful, the Most Gracious

    I was born to staunch Catholic Christian parents. Even from
    my youngest days, my father sometimes took me along with him when he went to
    preach, it was quite ob‐vious that he wanted
    me to succeed him in his profes‐sion.
    By the time I reached grade twelve, I could preach the Gospels in my own way.
    In college, I often met my Protestant classmates and discussed the differences
    in our faiths and the performance of rituals.

    By the time I completed the first year in college, I was
    sufficiently grounded in the knowledge of the Christian Faith as held by the
    Catholic Church. I was given a schol‐arship
    from the Church funds and in return for the help I received, I was required to
    receive special coaching in understanding parts of the Holy Book, under the
    Chief Priest of the Church who loved to teach me very much and was very
    intimately attached to me.

    Having appeared in the first group for my intermediate
    course I used to sit working at his subjects till late at night. One night when
    all were asleep and I was ab‐sorbed
    in my studies an idea suddenly struck my mind to examine the doctrine of the
    Holy Trinity, the basic formula of the Christian Faith. The question how god ex‐ists in three persons, and yet has a single divine nature,
    a single will and be of one substance arose in my mind.

    My failure to reconcile my belief in the Trinity with the
    reasoning of the science of logic, created a mental rest‐lessness in me. Days passed on and many a time, I thought
    of asking my father to help me in solving the problem which puzzled my mind but
    I knew that my fa‐ther would never
    appreciate the least doubt in the dog‐matic
    belief of the Catholic
    School. However, one day
    when I found my father in a happy mood and asked him to explain the Holy
    Trinity…he finally said:

    “In matters of faith one has to stop
    reasoning…this doctrine is beyond the grasp of human reason. One should believe
    in the doctrine only by one’s heart and mind!”

    This reply from my father upset me to a great ex‐tent…all my thinking got centered in the question which had
    become a definite problem to puzzle my mind fur‐ther and I wondered saying: “Is this the foundation upon
    which the huge edifice of the Christian faith is built? Is the basis of my
    faith only a matter of blind following of some dictated belief which can never
    stand reasoning or the independent scrutiny by the dispassionate and im‐partial arguments from the clean conscience?”

    I became extremely worried and made up my mind to blindly
    believe in the Trinity.

    One day one of our senior lecturers was sitting alone in
    his room and I entered with his permission and asked him if he could help me to
    solve something which to me was a perplexing problem. He very kindly asked me
    what it was. I asked him to explain to me how God, a single being, can exist
    simultaneously as three distinct persons: the Father, the Son (Jesus), and the
    Holy Spirit?!

    The senior lecturer smiled and said: “Is it that you do not
    like my stay in this college?” I asked him: “Why sir?” He said: “What do you
    think the college authorities who are staunch Catholics will do with me, if
    someone in‐forms them that I
    discuss in my private room things op‐posed
    to the Christian faith in general? Will they keep me on the staff of the
    College any longer? If you want to dis‐cuss
    anything here, you must confine your discussion to the subject of your studies
    in the College!”

    Thereafter, I made an appointment with him to see him in
    his house.

    On Sunday when I met the senior lecturer he first asked me
    as to what made me inquire into the Doctrine of Trin‐ity. I said that I wanted to know how far the doctrine
    stood to reasoning.

    He smiled and said, “Why don’t you ask any one of our
    priests?”

    I said: “I have asked them but they say it is a matter of
    belief or faith and it should not be subjected to any logic or philosophy. This
    has upset me. This has raised the question in me, if what I believe in is
    unreasonable and illogical, why should I subject myself to any blind follow‐ing? Is God so unjust to expect man to believe in a doc‐trine about Himself which no human brain can ever rea‐sonably conceive? I request you, Sir, to somehow give me
    some method of arguing out the possibility of such exis‐tence as the doctrine of Trinity wants us to believe in!”

    The senior lecturer smiled and said: ‘Dear Thomas, suppose
    you want me to prove by some mathematical formula how water can remain water
    and the same time be fire, or how a stone can be a stone and at the same time
    be water too, how can I do it? I do not think any sensible man on earth can
    ever conceive such a possibil‐ity…how
    the Ever living God who being the Ever living, can also at the same time be a
    mortal! (i.e. be a man to suffer death at the hands of the other mortals?) And
    how the same mortal being at the same time be the Absolute Immortal God? It is
    a problem which our priests want us to believe and we have to merely believe in
    it and none has any choice of even questioning the practicability of this
    inconceivable dogma.’

    He went on saying: “The fact is when God, Whom we believe
    as One, is absolutely One, it means that God is singularly One in natural
    essence of His existence, free from any different or variant factors having
    anything to do with His pure or Absolute Unity to justify His being the
    Absolute One, owing an indivisible existence, by Himself. Division suggests
    that the One is not an Abso‐lute
    One but a compound of some variants and that which is a composed being can
    never really be One in the true meaning of Oneness. And certainly the one
    depend‐ent in its existence upon its
    different components can never be independent in its action, whereas God is the
    Absolute One, independently Omnipotent in His Will and His action.

    Besides how can any three which are three separate be‐ings, with three variations justify being three separate en‐tities, remain three separately individual native proper‐ties differentiating them from each other, and become
    conceivably the absolute indivisible one, without the least variation in the
    essential oneness?

    An absolute one must be totally independent in its exis‐tence, Mr. Thomas…it is impossible to reason out the
    doctrine of the Holy Trinity for it is an inconceivable human riddle!”

    He continued: ‘The only thing is that we Christians are
    shut out of the vast sources of knowledge about the truth and of the higher
    factor in matters of religion which are available outside our own fold, by
    damning every non‐Christian as the
    Devil’s work. We Christians, Mr. Tho‐mas,
    in our madness to swell up our ranks have played such a disgraceful role that a
    scholar like Sir Dennison Ross had to helplessly disclose truth about this in
    his foreword to the translation of the Quran by George Sale.”

    I was amazed to hear the arguments of the senior lec‐turer who was himself known as a Catholic, and at the same
    time I was very much encouraged to know that my doubt about the
    unreasonableness of the doctrine of Trin‐ity
    was something which had made a highly educated and enlightened mind like the
    senior lecturer of Mathe‐matics to enquire
    into it. I was much benefited by the dis‐cussion
    with the senior lecturer for I came to know ar‐guments justifying the doubt created in my mind.

    My study of the matter in the ‘Islamic Literature’ and the
    translation of the Quran opened my eyes to many great and very important
    factors that effect human life on earth. Once I visited the senior lecturer in
    his house and to my amazement I found him possessing a great amount of
    literature on Islam!

    I further asked him: “May I know sir, if you have em‐braced the faith of the Muslims?”

    He replied: “Do not worry yourself about my personal
    choice!”

    I took the copy of the translation of the Quran by George
    Sale and read the introduction by Sir E. Dennison Ross. The introduction needs
    to be read with special at‐tention.
    Sir Ross said:

    “For
    many centuries the acquaintance which the major‐ity of Europeans possessed of Mohammedanism was based almost
    entirely on the distorted reports of fanati‐cal Christians which led to the discrimination of a mul‐titude of gross calumnies. What was good in Moham‐medanism was entirely ignored and what was not good in the
    eyes of Europe was exaggerated or
    misinterpreted. The unity of God and the simplicity of his creed was probably a
    more potent factor in the spread of Islam than the sword of the ghaziz.” (G. Sale’s translation of the Koran – Introduction)

    This statement of the great Christian scholar of interna‐tional repute, created in me the thirst to know the origi‐nal teachings of Islam especially about the Islamic con‐cept of God.

    About four years passed away and by this time I knew the
    contents of the Quran. Many things had aroused my attention. I had discussed
    many doubtful points with the senior lecturer whom I found to have read the
    Quran several times with a better and more critical view. I was now longing to
    meet some Muslim scholar to cross exam‐ine
    him about certain doubts about the Islamic Faith.

    Once I thought of Hinduism but what I saw daily with my own
    eyes, curses of untouchability and the reserva‐tions of the caste system prevalent before us and besides
    everything else, the idol worship and the observance of innumerable rituals did
    not prompt me to take up any enquiry into its tenets. I could never understand
    the su‐periority exclusively and
    arbitrarily claimed for the members of certain castes, simply because they had
    acci‐dentally been born in those
    folds. I had seen with my own eyes how the people belonging to certain castes
    are imagined as lower in the society and are treated as the untouchables, not
    allowed even to enter into the Hindu Temples. I had seen these poor souls being
    prohibited even to take drinking water from the wells reserved for the superior
    classes.

    The havoc in the social life played by Hinduism divid‐ing humanity into castes and sub‐castes and the unrea‐sonable
    superiority of one caste over the other is itself so repulsive that no one
    would like to take any trouble of executing any studies about the doctrines of
    that faith.

    While resenting the caste system and the sectarian seg‐regation in the Hindu folds, I was automatically re‐minded of the similar restrictions amongst Christians. I
    asked myself:

    “Why criticize other people and their beliefs when the
    religion which I myself belong to, has in it the sectarian segregation as well?
    Are not Churches in Christendom owned exclusively for the members of the
    particular sects? Are there not churches belonging to a particular sect which
    cannot be used by the people of the other sect? Has not Christianity failed to
    unite mankind into one human society? Did Jesus preach all these differences
    and dissensions which we the Christians have innovated? Is it not then that we
    are far away from the original objects of the Mission of Jesus Christ?”

    Against the irreconcilable differences and the innumer‐able dissensions of the social order in the very folds of
    Hinduism and Christianity, I was very much impressed by the genuine and real
    brotherhood practiced day and night among the Muslims. I found that a Muslim
    Mosque is a Mosque belonging to everyone who calls himself a Muslim and that
    there is no reservation of seats in the Mosque. I saw with my own eyes, Muslims
    of all ranks, all social and economical status of different complexions of
    various nationalities all standing in one row, turning towards one direction,
    praying to one God in one lan‐guage,
    and after the prayer shaking hands with one an‐other. Brotherhood or social equality claimed more in
    theory by other schools of thought in the world; I found it to be an ever
    experienced and a living reality in the daily life of the Islamic folds.

    One day I was informed by the senior lecturer who by this
    time had become a close friend of mine that a Mus‐lim scholar was going to deliver some talks in English on
    the life of the Prophet of Islam in a hall near the big Mosque of my town. My
    senior lecturer and I both at‐tended
    the talks and met the lecturer who was an old friend of my senior lecturer. We
    talked with the lecturer about several important topics.

    During my meeting with the Muslim lecturer I asked him if
    he would kindly answer some questions for my own information. He said: “I will
    most willingly answer your questions.”

    I put forward the following questions which he very
    cheerfully answered: “What proof have you besides the Quran to establish that
    Muhammad was truly a Prophet of God?”

    He answered: “Have you your Bible with you?” I said: “Yes.”

    He took the following verses and read them to me one after
    the other:

    The Acts 3, Verses 22: “For
    Moses truly said unto the fathers, a prophet shall the Lord your god raise unto
    you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever
    he shall say unto you.” 23: “And it shall come to pass that every soul which
    will not hear the Prophet shall be destroyed from among the people.” 24: “Yea!
    And all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have
    spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.”

    The Acts 7: Verses 37: “This
    is that Moses, who said unto the children of Israel, a Prophet shall the Lord
    raise up unto you your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.”

    John 14: “Jesus says:
    16: ‘I will pray the Father, and he shall give another comforter – that he may
    abide with you forever.’”

    26: “Nevertheless I tell you the truth: it is expedient
    for you that I go away, for if I go not away, the comforter will not come unto
    you, but if I depart I will send him unto you.”

    16: “I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye can
    not bear them now.”

    16: “Howbeit, when he the Spirit of Truth, is come, he
    will guide you unto all truth for he shall not speak of himself, but whatsoever
    he shall hear, that shall he speak; he will show you things to come.”

    I read the passages which I had already gone through
    several times before, but this time the perfect confidence with which the
    lecturer asked me to read the verse from my own sacred scriptures in support of
    his claim, threw a new light upon them for me to understand the matter dispassionately.
    Yet I replied: “But the prophecy is about the advent of Jesus!” He smiled and
    said: “Read the verse again! Does not the verse say that God will raise a
    Prophet like unto Moses i.e. he will be a man born of a father and a mother as
    was born Moses; whereas Jesus was born only of a mother. Besides the Prophet
    promised by God must be a man like Moses but you yourself call Jesus as the son
    of God! Moses was a lawgiving Prophet and the one like him must be a law‐giver, whereas Jesus was only a law‐abider, following the law of the Ten Commandments already
    introduced through Moses. Be‐sides
    one must betray his common sense as well as his learning to say that I and He
    the two different persons, i.e. the First and the Third person mean the same,
    or the one who departs prophesying about the advent of some one else, to be one
    and the same.”

    The argument was quite reasonable. Then I asked the
    lecturer: “Do you not believe in Jesus as the son of God? Cannot Jesus be God
    himself in the form of a man?” The lecturer smiled and very cheerfully replied:
    “Can there be a son to anyone without a wife, my friend? Can anyone who
    believes in the sonship of Jesus, at the same time sensibly imagine Virgin Mary
    to have been used by God as a wife? Let us seek protection of God against any
    such devilish straying of our minds. Sonship if used in the Bi‐ble can be only to mean a creature or the one who has re‐ceived life from God. Otherwise, what do you say about
    Jesus addressing himself as a son of man… “The
    son of man is come eating and drinking and ye say, behold a gluttonous man, and
    a wine bibber a friend of publicans and sinners.” (St. Luke 7:34)

    “The son of man be ashamed.” (Luke 9:26)

    “Saying the son of the man must be delivered into the
    hands of sinful men.” (Luke 24)

    “The son of man shall give unto you.” (John 6:27)

    Jesus addressed God as his father and also as our father
    which means that God is taken as the father of Jesus as much as He is the
    father (or the creator) of any of us, and hence Jesus’ sonship can mean in the
    sense of creature of god, the term ‘son of god’ used by Jesus can be only in
    sense of ‘servant of god’ – as Jesus refers to himself as god’s servant. This
    fact is testified by the verses by which every prophet of God from Adam has
    been termed as the son of God in Luke 3rd chapter in verses from
    23 to 30. Jesus is called as the son of Joseph and the genealogy of Jospeh is
    traced to Adam and Adam is called the son of God. Read the 30th
    verse of the same chapter: “Which was the
    son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was
    the son of God.” (Luke 3:30)

    These ready answers from the Bible created a very deep
    impression upon my mind about the amount of compara‐tive study the Muslims do and how strong and reason‐able they are in their faith about the Oneness of God.

    I asked the lecturer: “Do you believe in the Holy Bible as
    a Heavenly Book or not?” In reply to my question the lecturer requested me to
    answer the following questions:

    His Questions:

    My Answers:

    Is the Bible which is in your hands, the book which Jesus
    wrote as a scripture revealed by God?

    “No.”

    Did Jesus order or desire at any time in his life to
    write anything on his be‐half?

    “No”

    Was the Bible which is in your hands, written during the
    life time of Jesus?

    “No”

    Was the Bible which is in your hands today written
    immediately after the de‐parture of Jesus?

    “No”

     

    Then he said: “Please read p. 17 in the “Founder
    of Christianity and his Religion” published by the Chris‐tian Literature Society, Madras. It is said in the book: “The whole Bible contains sixty six books written by forty
    different authors over a space of about fifteen cen‐turies.” It is clearly said in the book that: JESUS CHRIST
    HIMSELF WROTE NOTHING. Oral teaching was for several years, the only means
    employed in the spread of Christianity. It was for the guidance of those young
    converts that the earliest writings of the new Tes‐tament were composed.”

    The same book further discloses that: “They were probably written about Twenty years after the
    death of Christ.”

    On pg. 18 it is stated: “The Gospels do not give a com‐plete history of the life of Christ. They are rather mem‐oirs.”

    I said: “But the Bible is the word of god
    inspired and written by the disciples of Jesus!” He again smiled and said: “Mr.
    Thomas, if the Bible is the Book of the Disci‐ples and of Jesus, how would you account for the differ‐ences in the Book, if it is an inspired word of God…does
    not the Catholic Bible contain some books which the Protestant version does
    not?”

    Have you read what Mr. Wilson says about the
    Bible, in the introduction to the ‘Diaglot’ – published by the Watch Tower
    Society? “If it has not been published by
    kingly authority it would not now be venerated by Eng‐lish and American Protestants, although it had come di‐rect from God. It has been convicted of containing over
    20,000 errors! Nearly 700 Greek Mss are not known and some of them are very
    ancient whereas the translator of the common version had only the advantage of
    some 8 Mss none of which was earlier than the tenth century.”

    Is not the Bible based upon 8
    manuscripts…whereas there are 700 manuscripts now available? If what is con‐tained in all such manuscripts is also the inspired word of
    god, why were these manuscripts left away? In view of all these facts brought
    to your light, if you still believe in the Bible as the inspired word of God,
    you may do so but you can’t expect the whole world to do it. If you make a
    serious and an impartial study of the Old and the New Testaments you will find
    in them the amount of blas‐phemies
    which the Jewish mind has fabricated against Lot,
    David, Noah, and Abraham who were the Holy Apostles of God, viz:

    • poltergeist_fuhrer

      a man of no or little faith, no amount of reason can suffice his thoughts…

      but, a man of faith, he does not need reason to justify…

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/7GU6GZUKVLULSAWKX4ECMQOSSM Peace

    CONT…
     

    “And Noah began to be a husbandman and
    he planted a vineyard.”

    “And he drank of the vine, and was
    drunken; and he was uncovered within this tent.”

    “And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father and told his two
    brethren about it.”

    “And Shem and Japheth took a garment
    and laid it upon their father, and their faces were backward, and they saw not
    their father’s nakedness.” (Gen: 10:123)

    Lot committing adultery with his own two daughters (Gen: 19:30‐38)

    David taking possession of his
    neighbor’s wife (II Sam 11:4)

    I asked, “What? Do you Muslims believe in
    the prophet’s of god other than Muhammad to be totally sinless and holy?”

    He answered me by reciting to me the
    following verses from the Quran:

    (Say (O Muslims), We believe in Allah, and that which has been revealed
    to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Tribes and that which has
    been given to Moses and Jesus, and that which has been given to the Prophets
    from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them. And we submit to
    Allah.) (2:136)

    (The Messenger of God
    believed in what had been revealed to him from his Lord, and so do the be‐lievers (i.e. Muslims) they all believe in Allah and His
    Angels, His Books (the different holy scrip‐tures) and His Messengers; we make no difference between
    any of His Messengers.) (2:285)

    The above verses of the Holy Quran bear
    clear testi‐mony to the fact
    that, as one of the fundamentals of his faith, every Muslim has to believe not
    only in the Holy Prophet Muhammad, but in all the other Prophets and Messengers
    as truthful and holy and should not make any distinction between them. The
    following verse of the Holy Quran informs us of the fact that Prophets were
    raised by God, among all nations in all parts of the earth.

    (There is not a nation but a warner has gone among them.) (35:24)

    It convinced me that Islam, alone, is an all
    comprehen‐sive faith which recognizes all
    other religions and which contains in it a perfectly harmonious integration of
    all the good, found partly in the other religious orders of the world. The
    sacred book of Islam i.e. the Holy Quran is the final exposition of the Divine
    Truth. The limitation of the human mind of the different ages, did not allow
    even Prophet like Jesus to speak out the whole truth. Jesus had to depart with
    many things yet to be told to his people. (John 16:14). Jesus had to tell his
    people to wait until the advent of the spirit of truth to disclose the whole of
    the truth. (John 16:13)

    I was further impressed by the universal
    aspect of the religion of Islam. Every answer from the lecturer was with an
    unchallengeable authority and with an unbreak‐able argument. I was awakened to differentiate between
    genuine truth and the fabrications of falsehood and to know many new factors to
    which I was blind all those years. But I did not know how to reconcile the dawn
    of true knowledge of truth with my original blind dogmatic belief and my
    belonging to the Christian faith any longer. I wanted to find out some failure
    on the part of the lec‐turer to answer
    satisfactorily some question or the other, so that I may have some excuse, be
    that even a false one, to maintain my position in the Christian faith.

    The lecturer continued after some time with
    the ques‐tion: “Shall I ask you something
    if you do not mind an‐swering it for my
    information?” I said: “Yes.” He asked: “Do you think Jesus to be a son of God
    or God himself?” I said: “Jesus is God himself in the form of His son.”

    He said: “Can you ever conceive anyone to be
    the im‐mortal god and at the same time
    be a mortal (man) to be caught in the hands of other mortals to suffer death?
    Can anything be high and at the same time low, black, and at the same time
    white? Can there be darkness and the same time light? What philosophy is this?”

    The lecturer continued saying: “Do you ever
    consider that there is one other question confronting the doctrine of the
    Trinity which needs to be answered by every Trini‐tarian that if any three different beings which are three
    different entities, are also at the same time One, with ab‐solute unity in all the perfect sense or meaning of One‐ness, what is the common control which makes them re‐main three and also be one at one and the same time? If
    there be any factor of such a wonderful and inconceiv‐able phenomena causing this amazing effect, then that
    supreme causative power, which controls the number and the unity, will alone be
    the Omnipotent God and not any one of the three which are only the controlled
    com‐ponents. Besides there arises
    another problematic ques‐tion which a
    believer in the Trinity will have to answer i.e. as to who is it that controls
    or determines the splitting of one into three different others, to be neither
    more nor less in number? There must be some cause for this con‐trolled effect and that the causative factor acting supreme
    over three will be the Omnipotent God and not any of the three which will only
    be the effect of the Supreme con‐trolling
    cause.

    Similarly, it will raise the question, what
    is the causa‐tive power which
    effects the three to be only one when joining together rather than divided into
    many groups of beings and, if there be any such cause, that supreme con‐trolling cause will be the omnipotent god, not any of the
    three who will only be the subservient ones. Under any circumstances no
    sensible man can ever reasonably be‐lieve
    in any effect whatsoever without some causative factor effecting it.

    However, the Holy Trinity is only a
    problematic doc‐trine created by the
    Christian Church which no logical reasoning can ever prove true.

    I had to helplessly agree to the views of
    the lecturer for I could not now reasonably believe in the existence of
    anything being itself and at the same time being its own opposite.

    “I would like you Mr. Thomas,” said the
    lecturer “to ponder a little over How the belief of Jesus being God Himself or
    the son of God, coincides with the fact that he was so terrified at the
    impending crucifixion that he shouted: “Eli,
    Eli, Lama Sabachtani?” (Meaning: My God,
    My God, has thou forsaken me?) (Mahew 27:46)

    “What philosophy is that? If Jesus was God
    Himself, does it mean that God was forsaken by God Himself and can that be God
    who felt hopeless and shouted to be res‐cued?”

    “Your Bible itself Mr. Thomas, reported that
    the son of God was forsaken by his father (god) in which case the forsaken son
    automatically and quite naturally forfeits his personal merits as a son and his
    relationship of being a son to his father. What do you say? Of what profitable
    use can the attachment to a forsaken son be? Mr. Thomas, please tell me!”

    I was dumbstruck – and I did not know what
    to say and what to do with the faith I already possessed as a staunch
    Christian.

    “Besides,” the lecturer continued: “Do you
    think Jesus to be God himself when he falls down crying, praying to someone
    else to remove the cup of death by crucifixion?”

    I asked: “Alright, sir, how do you reconcile
    the violence used by the Prophet of Islam to his being an Apostle of God?!”

    Immediately came the reply from the
    lecturer: “Please, Mr. Thomas, quote a single instance from the whole life
    story of the Holy Prophet Muhammad to show that he has ever committed any
    unprovoked aggression or any single instance of his taking the least initiative
    in attack‐ing any single soul. Each
    expedition of a battle he led or he allowed was only in self‐defense! The Bible does not preach self‐defense. The Bible preaches self‐surrender to the extent of handing over everything in one’s
    possession when anything which was in one’s hand had been taken away by any
    aggressor. Does any Christian follow this?”

    “Apart from the political history of the
    Christian na‐tions of Europe, do you not remember the inhuman methods employed
    by Christendom to spread its faith?”

    I was ashamed to hear what has been reported
    and I have to listen quietly to the records of the disgraceful conduct of the
    Christians. I at last ventured to ask one more question. “There is the doctrine
    of atonement of ex‐piation of sins of
    men through the blood of Jesus. Jesus having paid the price of the sins of man,
    i.e. he who be‐lieves in Jesus is
    cleansed and saved… have you any such accommodation in Islam?

    The lecturer smiled and replied: “My friend,
    the great‐est of God’s gifts to man is
    common sense. If man forfeits it of his own accord, then no one can help him.
    First let me know if the doctrine appeals to reason and common sense. A, for
    example, a Christian by faith, i.e. a believer in Jesus Christ as his savior,
    plunders the house of B and the members of B’s family. Does sense and logic
    agree to ‘A’ being let off unpunished by the law, particularly to the Law of
    the All‐Just Lord of the Universe,
    simply be‐cause ‘A’ accepts Jesus as his
    savior?”

    I had to say “No” because, to say otherwise
    would mean I forfeit my common sense and go against reason‐ing!

    He continued: “There is one very grave
    aspect of the doctrine of atonement through the blood of Jesus, i.e. when we
    pay for a thing, the thing becomes our own and the previous owner of that thing
    forfeits his entire claim over it for the price he has already received, is it
    not?”

    I said: “Yes.”

    Then he said: “If the sins of man have been
    paid for, god has no right to punish any sinner! Every sinner who merely
    believes in Jesus would be free do anything in the world which his brutal
    passion dictates him to do, for God his Lord has no right whatsoever even to
    question any sinner, for Jesus has met the cost of all his sins. Can this ever
    be sensible logic or common sense? Can this doctrine help life on earth to
    continue for one moment in peace and security?”

    He continued: “Please remember, Islam wants
    every individual to be kept bound by his being answerable with his own
    individual life as well as the interest of the collective life in this world,
    himself as a member of not only the human race but also of the creation of the
    Lord as a whole. Islam continuously invites and encourages man towards
    righteousness with the promise of the bliss‐ful life in the Hereafter and repeatedly warns him against
    vice and the consequent chastisement from the All Just Lord. The Holy Quran
    repeatedly warns saying:

    (And be on your guard
    against a Day when one soul shall not avail another in the least, neither shall
    intercession on its behalf be accepted nor shall they be helped. ) (2:123)

    (Whoever goes aright, for his soul does he go aright and whoever goes
    astray to its detriment only does he go astray, nor can the bearer of a bur‐den bear the burden of another nor do we punish until We
    have sent a Messenger (to give warning).) (17:15)

    (O humankind! Surely,
    we have created you of a male and female and made you into nations and tribes
    that you may know each other; surely the most honorable of you with Allah is
    the one among you most careful of his duty. Surely Allah is All‐knowing, All‐aware.) (49:13)

    While threatening man with grievous
    punishment in recompense for his evil, the Holy Quran discloses also the
    infinite mercy of the All‐Merciful
    Lord who does not want man, however much a sinner the individual be to be
    totally defect or hopeless of the merciful pardon from Him. The only condition
    for the pardon he needs being the sinner’s repentance against his vices, with
    his inten‐tion of amending his conduct in
    the future, and the turn‐ing whole‐heartedly to obedience and gratitude to the All‐Merciful Lord for His infinite grace.”

    “For goodness sake, tell me Mr. Thomas,
    which do you think is reasonable and sensible, either making man in‐toxicated and careless against sinning (i.e. making him
    unreasonably confident of the price of his sins as having already been paid by
    someone) or alerting man with his commitment to virtue against vice, (i.e.
    keeping him warned of the natural consequences of getting punish‐ment by the All‐Just
    Lord, against any misconduct or disobedience)?’’

    I felt that I had the day understood the
    hollowness of the doctrine of atonement upon which is built the whole edifice
    of the Christian faith. The divine mercy of the Lord dawned upon my heart, a
    new light of Divine guid‐ance. I thanked god
    for liberating me from the clutches of the grossly misleading dogmatic doctrine
    and leading me to Islam which I have myself found through an impartial enquiry
    that it is the right and the Straight Road to salva‐tion which the All‐Merciful
    Lord Himself has shown man through this Last Apostle Muhammad, may peace be
    upon him and his divinely chosen descendants.

    When I disclosed my acceptance of the true
    argument advanced by the lecturer and thanked him, he told me:

    “Thomas! You must thank God for blessing you
    with the fulfillment of his merciful promise to every sincere seeker of Truth!”

    The All‐Merciful
    Lord by His infinite mercy has ful‐filled
    His merciful promise to give mankind the everlast‐ing guidance through the Holy Prophet Muhammad who would
    abide in his guidance for all times.

    After coming across so many strong and
    unbreakable arguments against the doctrine of the Holy Trinity and also about
    many other fundamentals of Christian belief, I only wondered how such an
    unreasonable faith could attract such a huge number of people in the world.

    Once I found my father returning home very
    happy and immediately as he arrived he called me and said: “You will be glad to
    know my dear son that today I got 109 souls into our fold! At baptism of such a
    big number, the rev father, the chief of our mission praised my ser‐vices very much and has increased my salary as well as my
    traveling allowance and has awarded me with a to‐ken reward corresponding to the number baptized through my
    efforts!”

    I asked: “Who are they, father, who were
    baptized?”

    He said: “They are from five surrounding
    villages. There are men, women, and children.”

    I asked: “Are they all educated?”

    He said: “No, they are poor people of the
    slums; they are only laborers in the paddy fields of their villages.”

    I asked if they had understood fully their
    undertaking as converts to the Christian faith. Would every one of them stand
    any cross examination against their decision to leave the folds they were in
    and their joining the Chris‐tian
    Belief?

    He replied: “What do you mean? I told you
    they are all uneducated, poor illiterates; laborers, from the slums! The group
    consists of men, women, and children. Now I will have to go there every day and
    coach them up in the doctrine of our faith.”

    On hearing this I smiled, and seeing me
    smiling my fa‐ther asked: “Why do
    you smile, Thomas? What is the matter?” I said: “Nothing father, I do not see
    in this mass conversion any matter of pride or pleasure which any true religion
    or any genuine or reasonable faith can claim for itself, for it is nothing but
    exploiting the illiteracy and ignorance of the poor laborers. It is leading the
    mentally blind ones into something which they neither know nor recognize!

    Do you think father, that any sensible man
    can rea‐sonably be proud over his
    getting some illiterate men, women, and children to accept his own ideals and
    justi‐fiably claim the least merit or
    value to his thought?”

    “While the entry into a faith like Islam is
    effected only after a detailed study and enquiry by the learned ones with
    perfect conviction, we Christians pride over our success in swelling up our
    ranks by mass conversions of illiterate laborers, who by circumstances are
    forced to ac‐cept the Christian
    doctrine without knowing what they are doing is right or wrong? An ignorant
    mind is like a blank sheet, one can draw upon it whatever one’s fancy chooses
    and once the inscription is made to be settled upon such raw material, any
    artist can pride over the palette having any particular design of his own. If
    today to win the sympathy of the ignorant masses we boast be‐fore our illiterate converts of our humanity and self sacri‐fices in the cause of the spread of our faith will the
    outer world also forget the Edict of Milan, father, and will all the records of
    history of the brutal outrages that Chris‐tendom
    committed against the poor helpless Jews, in its own passionate eagerness and
    anxiety to swell its ranks totally vanish?”

    I continued: “If you kindly permit me
    father, I would like to know from you if the Bible in your hands is to be
    merely read, memorized and preached to the others… or is it to be acted upon in
    our daily life? If it is to be acted upon will you kindly show me, father, if
    the Christian world could ever practice the principle of turning the other
    cheek also if one is already smitten? Could any sin‐cere Christian till now, give away his shirt when his coat
    was taken away? Will you, father, surrender our whole house if anybody invades
    our residence and takes pos‐session
    of any of the rooms in these premises? If the Christian powers of the world
    really believe in this doc‐trine
    of self surrender, why do they maintain their mili‐tary and police forces?”

    “Kindly tell me, father if there is any
    earthly use of merely believing in any golden ideals which can only adorn the
    pages of some book and which can only be preached but never practiced. Why
    should we not rea‐sonably accept the
    doctrine of self‐defense taught by Is‐lam, and the principle of pardoning our offenders if they are
    repentant, and amending their conduct?”

    “For goodness sake let me know father, how
    can three different ones at the same time be an absolute one, both numerically
    and also in the essential nature of perfect unity?”

    “On what reasonable grounds can the one who
    is for‐saken by God, be god himself and
    if Jesus is to be be‐lieved as the son of
    god, what claim to the relationship with his father can a forsaken son have?”

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/7GU6GZUKVLULSAWKX4ECMQOSSM Peace

    CONT…2

    “What right had Christendom to claim any
    truth in it when its spread was caused by inhuman atrocities com‐mitted by the Christian forces against the poor helpless
    Jews. The conduct of the brutal outrages committed in the holy name of the
    Christ, has been fully reported even by the Christian authorities on the Edict
    of Milan and by the world renowned Christian scholar Gibbon in his fa‐mous work: ‘The Decline and Fall of the Roman Em‐pire.’“

    “The Doctrine of atonement through the blood
    of Christ, will naturally attract those sinners who have sinned and who do not
    want to give up sinning under the protection of the doctrine that the price of
    their sins has already been paid away and, however much worse sinners they
    themselves choose to be, they will not in the least be chastised for their
    heinous crimes, for, Jesus hav‐ing
    paid away for the sins of man, God has forfeited His claim to punish the
    sinners thereafter.”

    “There are many such things, father which
    need a dis‐passionate study and
    an impartial judgment.”

    “I tell you father, that whatever be the
    consequences and whatever misfortune may afflict me, I, for one, have decided
    not to sell away or forfeit my conscience and common sense to believe in such
    unreasonable dogmatic doctrines. I have embraced Islam, and if you do not get
    angry with me, kindly allow me to explain to you the de‐tails of my enquiries; I will do it whenever I am re‐quested to do so. I do not like any thought or belief of
    mine to be swallowed by any one by force, for the relig‐ion of Islam, which I now openly declare to have em‐braced, enjoins that there shall not be any compulsion in
    the matter of faith, as the truth has been revealed against falsehood.”

    To my utter surprise, I found my father
    fully attentive to my exposing my personal views and convictions and at the
    end, he said:

    “Son, do not think that your father is a fool.
    I have been occasionally confronted with such ideas during my life whenever I
    had the occasion of discussing relig‐ion with my Muslim friends. For God’s sake keep this matter
    strictly confined to you. Otherwise be sure we will be thrown out into the street
    as destitute.”

    A few days later, my father decided to
    declare himself a Muslim, too.

    I now, for the information and guidance of
    every seeker of the truth, openly declare the actual findings of my sin‐cere enquiry that Islam is not only the last Mighty Relig‐ion, but it is also the perfect faith which contains all
    the good. One of the most distinguishing and striking char‐acteristics of Islam is that it requires of its followers
    to believe that all the religions of the world that preceded it were revealed
    by God for the respective people of those ages. It is one of the fundamentals
    of this faith that its fol‐lowers
    must believe in all the prophets who were sent into the world before the
    Prophet Muhammad as truthful and sinless.

    Muhammad is the name of the Prophet through
    whom this all comprehensive faith was revealed in its complete and perfect form
    for humanity at large for all times. It is the West that named his faith
    ‘Mohammedanism’ to co‐incide with the
    fashion of Christianity, Buddhism, Con‐fucianism,
    Zoroastrianism, and Hinduism. On the other hand, the name of this religion is
    already given in its Book, the Holy Quran, as ‘Islam’, and the Prophet of Is‐lam is called a Muslim as any other believer. As the vari‐ous prophets preached this same Truth among different
    nations at different times in different languages, every Prophet of God is
    spoken of in the Holy Quran as a Mus‐lim.
    Thus I have found, beyond all doubts that Islam is the religion which humanity
    needs for its progress in all spheres of its material as well as spiritual life
    to earn sal‐vation in the end.

    A Brief introduction of Islam for New
    Muslims

    Islam is to submit completely to Allah by believing in His
    Oneness; by worshipping Him, and forsaking all types of Shirk (polytheism).

    Islam is the only Deen accepted by Allah. It is the Final Deen,
    which has abrogated all previous religions. Allah does not accept from His
    slaves other than it. Allah says: ‘Indeed the only accepted Deen is Islam.’

    He
    also says, ‘and whoever seeks other than Islam, it would not be accepted from
    him, and he would be amongst the losers in the Hereafter.’

    How
    to enter the folds of Islam: The Two
    Testimonies of Faith

    (La ilahah Illa Allah wa anna Muhammad Rasool Allah)

    To
    enter Islam, you must know the meaning of these two testimonies; pronounce them
    out of pure conviction, without the slightest doubt.

    Translation
    of the Shahadah :

    Ash’hadu:
    I certainly know and believe without the slightest doubt…

    An la
    ilahah: that there is no god worthy of being wor‐shipped in the universe…

    Ilal’laah:
    This is an affirming sentence; i.e. that all acts of worship belong to Allah
    alone…

    An’na
    Muhammadan: Muhammad, son of Abdullah, son of Abdul‐Muttalib certainly…

    Rasool
    Allah: was sent by Allah to mankind at large; to both men and jinn.

    Its
    General Meaning: (La ilahah Illa
    Allah Muhammad Rasool Allah) There
    is no god worthy of being wor‐shipped
    except Allah and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah (We obey his commands;
    refrain from whatever he has forbidden. We believe all that he has informed us
    with, and that Allah is not to be worshipped except in the manner which he has
    taught us.)

    The
    Divine Scripture of Islam: It is the Quran, which is the words of Allah; it was
    revealed to Muhammad, may Allah exalt his mention, through Angel Jibreel, may
    Al‐lah exalt his mention.

    It is
    incumbent upon the Muslim to memorize from it a portion enough for him to
    complete his prayers.

    Indeed,
    all previous scriptures were distorted by their people; but the Quran remains
    in its pure form as it was revealed to Muhammad, may Allah exalt his mention.
    Allah has promised to preserve it till the Day of Resurrec‐tion. Allah says: ‘Indeed We have revealed the Dhikr, and
    We will preserve it.’ For this reason, no one can distort it.

    After
    knowing the meaning of the Two Testimonies of Faith, pronouncing them and
    accepting them whole‐heartedly (without
    being pressurized into accepting it or promised worldly things upon pronouncing
    it) he would become a Muslim, upon whom certain obligations would become due,
    and others would be waived. If he dies after pronouncing it, he would enter
    Jannah, even if he did not do a good deed.

    The
    Five Pillars of Islam: (These pillars
    are to be physi‐cally executed,
    whether the action is attestation in the heart, profession by the tongue or a
    physical action)

    The
    First Pillar: The Two Testimonies of Faith.

    There
    is no god worthy of being worshipped except Al‐lah, and Muhammad, son of Abdullah, was a Prophet and
    Messenger, who was sent by Allah to both men and jinn, to guide them to worship
    Allah alone, without asso‐ciating
    any partners to Him.

    The
    Second Pillar: The Salah (Prayer).

    They
    are five prayers in total during the day and night. The reward the Muslim would
    attain from performing them would be equal to the reward of fifty prayers…if
    performed with its necessary conditions, pillars and compulsory acts. Some of
    its conditions are that the per‐son
    who wants to pray be a sane Muslim, who has reached the age of distinction,
    having made Taharah (ab‐lution) and intention
    (to pray a certain prayer), and to face the Qiblah while praying.

    The
    Third Pillar: Zakat (Poor‐Due).

    It is
    due on every Muslim whose wealth has reached the Nisaab (amount of wealth which
    renders it incumbent upon its owner to pay Zakat) and has been held in pos‐session for 12 lunar months, to give 2.5% from it to the
    poor and needy from among his relatives whom he le‐gally does not have to support, and to other poor and needy
    Muslims, as well.

    The
    Fourth Pillar: Fasting.

    The
    person should intend to fast from the night. He should abstain from food and
    drink and sexual inter‐course from Fajr
    till the sunset. The Month of Fasting is called Ramadhan. It is compulsory on
    every sane, adult Muslim.

    The
    Fifth Pillar: Hajj (Pilgrimage)

    It is
    the visitation to Makkah and other sacred sites with the intention to perform
    Umrah and Hajj. It is a duty on every adult, sane Muslim who can afford
    performing it, once in a lifetime. Women who have no Mahram (guard‐ian) do not have to perform Hajj.

    Whoever rejects one of these pillars out of disbelief or
    due to laziness would become a Kaafir (disbeliever) and would exit the folds of
    Islam.

    The
    Six Pillars of Faith:

    1. Belief in Allah:
    That is to believe that He is the Crea‐tor,
    the Provider, the One Who causes death and life, and the One in Whose Hands are
    all affairs. He is the First be‐fore
    Whom there is none, and He is the Last after Whom there is none, He is the
    Supreme above Whom there is none, and He is the Most‐Knowledgeable from Whom nothing is hidden. We believe in
    all His beautiful names and attributes without distorting or suspending them,
    striking parallels between them or comparing them. Al‐lah says, ‘There is nothing that resembles Him, and He is
    the All‐Seeing All‐Hearing’

    2. Belief in the Angels: They are honorable slaves, who obey Allah. Among them are
    Jibreel, Mee’ka’il, Israfeel, Ridhwaan, Maalik, and the angels who record the
    good and bad deeds of men.

    3. Belief in the Divine Scriptures which Allah revealed to his Prophets and Messengers. The Last
    Scripture is the Quran. It has abrogated all previous scriptures, thus it is
    not permissible to put into practice any scripture besides the Quran.

    4. Belief in the Messengers: Allah sent them to mankind to guide them to worship Him
    alone, and not associate partners with Him. We believe that Allah sent them.
    Among them are the ‘Ulul Azm’ (Prophets who exerted great efforts) who are,
    Nooh, Ibraheem, Musa, Eesa, and finally Muhammad, may Allah exalt his mention,
    and render him safe from every derogatory thing, who is the last and best of
    them.

    5. Belief in the Last Day: It is the Day of Resurrection, the Day of Requital; the
    Day believers would enter Jan‐nah
    and disbelievers sent to Hell‐Fire;
    as for the sinners (who died without repenting), they would be subject to the
    will of Allah. He would either punish them or forgive them.

    6. Belief in the Qadr’ (Preordainment) both in its evil and good consequences.
    Know that whatever is ordained would come to pass; whatever you will be
    afflicted with will take place. Everything which takes place in this uni‐verse is already recorded in the Preserved Tablet (al‐Lauh al‐Mahfoodth).

    Last Thought

    I hope that you read this book with an open heart and
    mind…and I pray to God that you see the light of truth.

     

    2

  • Tony B

    Silly discussion. 

    It basically comes down to a childish argument: “My imaginary friend is better than your imaginary friend”.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/TP6YY66XPT63YFGHDKYTMIO4CM Daniel

    The rites, practices and beliefs of the Roman Catholic Church are derived from pagan Babylonian religion and tradition since Nimrod. This assertion was well documented in a book entitled “The Two Babylons” by Alexander Hislop.

    On my personal note, RCC as a dominant religion, deviates from fundamental doctrine of Christianity. Some of these deviations are relic worship (idols), rosary, purgatory and prayers for the dead – just to name a few.

    Christianity is not just a religion, it is the right relationship with the Almighty GOD according to His word (Bible).

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_E3CE56OQVPC4RPYD2NR4VD3SUE Bert

      again, that’s according to born against and other christian fundamentalists …..

    • poltergeist_fuhrer

      wrong…history tells that in 12th century, orthodox deviates led by cerularius

      15-16th century, luther deviates

      1914 manalo deviates…

      1902 aglpiay deviates…

      if u r saying that RCC from true teachings…WHY ARE THOSE WHO DEVIATED FROM RCC(LIKE WHAT I ENUMERATED ABOVE) HAVE HORRIBLE DIFFERENCES IN THEIR TEACHINGS…

      IF U R SAYING THAT RCC IS NOT THE TRUE TEACHINGS AND UNG MGA TUMIWALAG SA RCC SILA ANG MAY TRUE TEACHINGS…BAKIT IBA IBA ANG KANILANG TEACHINGS???MAGKAKASALUNGAT…sana, kung sa isip nila mali ung sinasabi ng RCC, dapat NAGTUTUGMA ung sa kanila…NOW, WHO IS FOOLING AROUND..IT IS NO OTHER THAN BUT YOU…SIMPLE LOGIC TELLS…

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/EDB2CW643AV6DCQEWFJF6JK7BY Renski1970

    Inggit na naman ba ang mga PROTESTANT/EVANGELIST/INC/KULTO dito. Tumahimik na lang kayo, hayaan ninyo ang RCC, maluwag pa sa sinturon iyan. Kung totoo man na nakonbert sila bilang RCC eh ano ngayon? Dapat nga kayong mga Kristiano kuno mag diwang dahil sa walang kahirap hirap, magbahay bahay kayo sa mga taong ito at IHAYAG ninyo ang inyong MASAMANG ay MABUTI palang saluobin. Baka sakaling makaBITAG na naman kayo ng miebro sa walang KAHIRAP HIRAP. Advice ko lang po na manahimik na lang kayo at mag obserba, pag nakalingat PASOK agad sabay kabig. Kayo ay parang mga SALISI at SNATCHERS ng mga TAO. Go na kayo mga mangnanakaw!

    • Olibo

      Maganda ang layunin ng lahat ng relihiyon kahit huwad o tunay para sa iba.Kung susundin mo ang prinsipyo.LOVE, GODLINESS, SELFLESS,CHARITY and etc.Ang ikinasasama lang nito ay kung may miyembrong lihis sa prinsipyo.Paranoid at mala-basura ang isip sa sarili at sa kapwa.Psychiatrist at gamot ang kailangan ng mga taong ganuon, hindi relihiyon.Cheers.

      • poltergeist_fuhrer

        paano maganada ang layunin ng LAHAT na relihiyon???

        hindi lahat ng BUS papunta ng metro manila…

        as analogy, hindi lahat ng relihiyon papunta sa diyos…remember, satan is napaka tuso….disguising as good, but later, he leads you to his place….tingnan mo nalang ang inc, born aginsts..and so on…

    • poltergeist_fuhrer

      tama…ang puntirya pati ng mga ito ay ung napapagalitan ng pari…or ung mag hindi nagsisimba…mga salisi gang talaga…

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