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Tagle or Palma is next cardinal—Church execs

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Manila Archbishop Luis Antonio Tagle. NIÑO JESUS ORBETA

Following the death of Jose Cardinal Sanchez, either Manila Archbishop Luis Antonio Tagle or Cebu Archbishop Jose Palma will likely be named a cardinal when Pope Benedict XVI calls for the next consistory, according to Church officials.

Archbishop Emeritus Oscar Cruz on Sunday said that normally the Philippine Catholic Church had three cardinals but the Vatican had not yet named the replacements of Sanchez, former Manila Archbishop Gaudencio Cardinal Rosales and former Cebu Archbishop Ricardo Cardinal Vidal when the three retired.

Though retired, the two remaining living cardinals—Rosales and Vidal—are still members of Vatican’s College of Cardinals but can no longer vote during a Papal conclave.

The College of Cardinals is a body of all the cardinals of the Roman Catholic Church whose functions include advising the Pope on Church matters and electing a successor following the death of a Pope.

“It’s hard to answer why the Vatican is taking its time, but sooner or later, the Archbishop of Manila and of Cebu will be named cardinals because the observance of the Church is that if you replaced a cardinal, you will also be elevated to cardinal,” Cruz explained to reporters.

Tagle, then bishop of Imus, was named late last year as Rosales’ replacement.  Palma, who is also currently president of the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of the Philippines, replaced Vidal when the latter retired in 2010.

“In due time, Archbishop Tagle and Archbishop Palma will be elevated to the College of Cardinals,” said Cruz.

Sanchez, the fifth Filipino to be elevated to the Vatican’s College of Cardinals, died on Friday at the age of 91.

His interment is scheduled at 10 a.m. Monday at the Cathedral Shrine of the Good Shepherd on Regalado Avenue, Fairview Park in Quezon City. He will be buried in a tomb in the cathedral crypt. Vidal will officiate the Holy Mass and deliver the homily.


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Tags: College of Cardinals


  • Hfxwst

    My best wishes to these competitors.  If they become Cardinals, I pray they learn to speak for only their own religious sect and not pretend to speak for all Filipinos, otherwise they will be accused of arrogance and be seen as leaders of religious tyranny.  I pray they concern themselves with the poor, the hungry and the disadvantaged and avoid interference in our government, as we are a modern democracy built on the principle of the separation of church and state.  I hope God gives them guidance and aggressiveness in dealing harshly with Priests who continue to molest children, and they will no longer provide secret shelter to the offenders.  I pray they overcome their inability to effectively teach abstinence and allow their female members to be educated on reproductive health.  Education should be Right and not subject to censorship.

    • Guest

      Yes, but they are already speaking on behalf of the Majority of Filipino people which are Catholics… do you object about this fact?

      As one of the Lawmakers said, they cannot legislate morality, then why they are pushing to legislate a bill which is immoral in the eyes of the Catholic teachings. The State is already intruding into the teachings of the Church.

      If you want your own religion to practice Contraceptives, Consequential Abortion, and Sexual Education, then your own Religion can DO SO.. FREELY.. The Catholic Church is not against you!

      But never should it become a LAW cause once enacted, this Law would eventually step and contradict the belief of the Catholic Faith.

      • Hfxwst

        It is of no consequence if it contradicts – no matter if you are a catholic or something else. It is a matter of personal choice.

        I will not accept Catholic morality being imposed on me through legislation – like an extremist Muslim country! RH Bill is NOT immoral – how dare you say that – you clearly support Catholic tyranny. SHAME!

      • Guest

        If it is a matter of Personal Choice, then why Legislate???

        When you Legislate, the State is binding every single Citizen to that Law, irrespective of Religious orientation..

        O nasaan ngayon ang Separation ng Church & State???

        Kaya nga kung MORAL sa iyo ang mga PROVISIONS ng RH BILL.. then DO IT.. walang pumipigil sa iyo.. !!! HEAVENS and EARTH is yours to practice your Belief!!

        You are a SHAME, cause you are insisting on something that others may deem IMMORAL to them!

      • tamumd

        Ah….someone is envoking the persecution/conspiracy theory excuse again!!! Lots of countries that subscribe to the separation of church and state has their own RH laws and no one goes to prison for not using contraceptions or not sending their kids to school for sex education in those countries. Just take a look at the US or Italy where the Vatican is located has one. So obviously these countries do not infringe on the practice of anyone’s religion..otherwise these kinda laws would have not existed!!!

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IQRHFQLTHJBHOVSJMF7RC3FNIQ nathan

        RH is immoral? Bishops, diosceses having millions of shares in PSI, banks and mining is not immoral?
        SHAME!!!!!!

      • 2012taong_bayan88

        Aside from the Catholic chruch, other religions have investments in business enterprises. What’s wrong with that? It’s on the record that the INC bought last year a town in South Dakota (USA) for about $800,000.00. Protestants Churches in the US have investments in business ventures and own huge properties, too. What’s wrong with that?

      • tamumd

        That’s called hypocrisy and swindling people of their money!!! Those are the same money that was given by ordinary people some of whom could barely make ends meet! Yet these bishops and pastors live like kings in their palatial residences with chauffeurs, some with private planes!!! In the meantime they keep remiding the poor, unsuspecting congregation that ” it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of god”!!!! b…..s…!!!

      • Hfxwst

        The legislation provides for authority to give contraceptives to those who WANT them and cannot afford them!

        Do you even know what you are talking about? Or do you just spend your time being an extremist and imposing Catholic tyranny on a country that guarantees freedom of religion?

        Shame on you!

      • po6is777

        The fact that the majority of this country are Catholics, therefore, majority are Catholics paying their due taxes. We don’t want our own money for taxes be used against our beliefs. Respect our beliefs. Do not impose to us to use our our own money to buy your condoms and pills.

      • Guest

        How about you?? Do you know what Tyranny is all about?

        Try to read the arguments and reasons of the Catholic teachings first before barking uncessantly and without logic..

        You are talking selectively of the Provisions stated in the RH Bill to support your argument. Read the whole bill first… The Law is Sweeping, and does not discriminate whether one is Catholic or Protestant or Muslim or Atheist.

        If this law would cross the belief of the Catholic church against the morality of Contraception and Consequential Abortion, then it is a clear restriction to our freedom to live our faith..

        My point is simple and clear.

        If you think RH is Moral, then Freely PRACTICE IT..  common this statement is plain and simple… dont Force FEED to us, non believers, the BITTER PILL of this LAW..

        This is the Ultimate essence of Freedom of Religion.

      • Hfxwst

        If it against Catholic law, that is too bad – no one is forcing you to use birth control except the men who control your church.
        Yet, you seem justified in telling me what to do, and I do not accept that, and feel sympathy for your poor awareness and education.

        If we all must live under Catholic law, then please have the President announce that and have the Senate and Congress amend the Constitution – because at this point in time, no one HAS to live under Catholic law. We are all equal here, even you with your extremism and tyranny and 16th century beliefs. It is only here in this Country where Catholics are misinformed and under educated – that is the way your religion wants it.

      • po6is777

        You are getting desperate in your response kay tiamawa_ako siguro dahil hindi mo na masagot logically and truthfully yong reasoning niya kaya personal na ang tirada mo. So sad.

      • Guest

        hehehe…. That is a sign of immaturity.. and without a cause… hehehe

        Ayos lang iyon.. at least i have put my point accross.. hehehe

      • Guest

        Precisely, Why are you so affected by our belief?

        It is our faith and our fidelity the Teachings of the Catholic Church that  molds our personality.

        If you are against our faith then so be it. Why are you so affected??

        As far as we know, our church’s teaching is moral and make us closer to our GOD..

        My suggestion to you.. Just ignore us and live coexistentially..

        Hindi pa magagalaw balahibo mo..

        Just don’t force feed to us your belief that RH is Moral.

        Just do what you think is moral…. GO GO GO.. Kikita pa ang Pharmaceutical company sa iyo..

      • Hfxwst

        Absolutely not against your faith – I fully support freedom of religion and the separation of church and state. What I object to is having the Catholic religion imposed on me. It is religious tyranny of the type we see currently in some Islamic Countries and just as unacceptable! Very contrary to christian principles of tolerance, kindness and understanding. Arrogant!

        The personality of the Filipino people has NOTHING to do with being Catholic – if it does, then do the 30 million who are NOT Catholic have no personality; or the 20 or so million who are Catholic by birth but do not practice not exist in Filipino culture?

        You have to widen your view of your own country, and become better educated= shame on you!

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_K3AUOVX5SXH4QSBROS76XUY3LE pizza ria

        shame on you too!

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_K3AUOVX5SXH4QSBROS76XUY3LE pizza ria

        hey you, you should be thankful that you when your mother was conceiving you that there was no birth control pills yet, or this RH bill blah blah. kung hindi baka hindi ka tao ngayon.  shame on you.

      • http://profiles.google.com/forestking19 Ryan Barcelo

         Why should the government “give” contraceptive devices? Why should government spend for something that is not addressing at all any of the 10 causes of death in this country? Funding for free contraceptives is government inefficiency! It is not addressing a critical health issue of this nation.

      • tamumd

        “Funding for free contraceptives is government inefficiency! It is not addressing a critical health issue of this nation” That is your opinion…and you’re entitled to one! However, most countries in the world including leading organizations such as the WHO at least don’t think so!!!

      • http://profiles.google.com/forestking19 Ryan Barcelo

        Interesting that you so much respect for such a puppet agency of radical ideologues as the WHO.

      • tamumd

        Ah so you’re not only a blind catholic die-hard, you’re also a conspiracy theory monger!!! If world-wide government health agencies base their health recommendations on such organization as WHO or CDC and the whole medical/scientific community agree, who are you to say otherwise? And what about most countries both third world and developed..most of them have some form of RH laws…there must be alot of radical ideologues living in those places…lol. Meanwhile your only idea of treating a disease is to pray! How pathetic!!!!

      • http://profiles.google.com/forestking19 Ryan Barcelo

         Cmon, is the business of the UN agencies, including WHO, of stretching definition of terms to accommodate radical ideologies a “conspiracy theory”? Look at how WHO attached a lot of meaning to the word “critical” in its definition of “essential medicines” so that condom and IUD, which are never medicines in the proper sense, may fall in that category. Look at how UN manipulated the definition of “Reproductive Health services” so it will include abortion in the name of women’s rights. Look at how UN-CEDAW is pressuring countries to adopt abortion as part of RH services after these developing countries gave in to UN pressure to pas RH legislations. Wake up!!! RAdical ideologues are everywhere especially in developing countries. Go to Africa, you can meet many of them there. I think it is you who are pathetic. I suggest you get out of your self-centered universe so you will see the reality.

      • tamumd

        Sorry buddy and your conspiracy theory…you against the whole world-wide medical and scientific community. I wonder who would I believe and trust?!!! Definitely not the catholic church who is desperately clinging to their iron age dogmas! Funny how even Italy where the Vatican is located has RH bill..or Spain or Ireland! So NO it’s not a third world phenomena. It’s an enlightened world reality and it’s coming to the Philippines SOON!!!

      • http://profiles.google.com/forestking19 Ryan Barcelo

         I have no plan of convincing a closed-minded, self-centered radical ideologue like you. I have shown you realities how UN is harassing countries which adopted the RH policy and you ignore them. Fine. Call it conspiracy. I don’t really care if many traditional Catholic countries adopted RH, after all, their politics had long been detached from Christianity, that is why their nations are weathering. RH will not come to the Philippines soon as you predicted. How many years had it been said that it will come “soon” but it didn’t. We will be spared from the irrationality of that measure.

      • tamumd

        Dream on

      • http://profiles.google.com/forestking19 Ryan Barcelo

         We can prove that the RH Bill is immoral even without your so called “Catholic Morality” as reference. No doubt, lying and killing are immoral in all cultures. RH Bill lies in saying that we have a population explosion. RH Bill lies that the pill is not abortifacient. The Pill without the woman knowing it has the potential to abort, it kills. Now, tell me that RH Bill is not immoral.

      • tamumd

        Well…. a lot of things in this world could potentially kill. Just driving around in your bike or car could kill you, yet we don’t ban driving around and label that immoral! Lots of medications have the potential to make someone really sick and die. The plain, simple acetaminophen if taken in large quantity is enough to give someone fulminant liver failure. The fact is a lot of medications are classified under Categories C & D that includes antibiotics, anticoagulants, anticonvulsants, antineoplastics,etc and even some Category X such as methotrexate, isotretinoin, warfarin among other things… are widely prescribed today despite their known teratogenicity! Yet we don’t call that immoral!

      • http://profiles.google.com/forestking19 Ryan Barcelo

         Surely, a lot of things in this words could potentially kill. But, we say you may die in driving if you are careless and this is good. Yet, RH advocates never say that you can be guilty of abortion if you take pills. HEre is where immorality lies. On the other hand, over-dosage is another issue. If its is done intentionally to over-dose and kill a life, that is immoral. Accidental over-dosage is not. Where is your logic?

      • tamumd

        Listen to your obtuse logic of death that is immoral!!! “you may die in driving if you are careless and this is GOOD”. So for catholics it is OK to die if you’re careless? I thought you guys resist anything that would cause any life to end? By the way anyone could die even if you’re careful..it’s the other people that are not… that could kill you or you could even be shot at not doing anything! Contraceptive pills are taken so that pregnancy do not occur..so how is that even an abortion? Those medicines that I mentioned FYI don’t need overdoses to kill a fetus..so you have no clue about therapeutics it seems like!!!

      • http://profiles.google.com/forestking19 Ryan Barcelo

         Please do not twist my words. My exact statement was: ” But, we
        say you may die in driving if you are careless and this is good.” The point here is that “saying” or informing people the fact that you may die in careless driving is right and good. There is no lying here as compared to the fact that RH advocates lie in not telling people that they may be guilty of murder if they take the pills. I never suggested that “it is OK to die if you’re careless”. You misunderstood my statement.

        On the pills, FYI, it has 2 functions. 1. prevent ovulation and 2. make the uterus incapable of conception. It is not always true that the pill prevent ovulation. The woman taking pill, without knowing it, may ovulate  and that the ovum may be fertilized. However, the fertilized egg – A HUMAN BEING already – is prevented from implanting on the uterine wall. Ultimately, that defenseless HUMAN BEING is aborted, is murdered. This is the point! Di mo alam ito? Do your homework, please.

      • tamumd

        Hahahaha…don’t give me lecture on how contraception works!!! Oh it’s not my fault for not writing clear sentences! Anyone who reads that statement will arrive at the same conclusion. Even you have to make convoluted explanations just to make sense of it! So you really believe people are not informed of the side effects of medications given to them by their doctors and other health care professionals? That’s one of the very basic requirements if someone is dispensing a medication..tell the person the correct dose, frequency, time, what is the medications is all about, potential side-effects and what to do if those things happen. It’s people like you who harbors conspiracy theory think otherwise!!! Glad that you agree that #1 – contraceptives prevent ovulation first and foremost and #2 – if all else fails make the uterus incapable of supporting a newly fertilized ovum! So where is murder there???!!!  You considered a newly fertilized ovum not even implanted a human being? FYI around 50% of fertilized ova are spontaneously aborted. Should you blame your god for that and call him murderer and immoral?

      • http://profiles.google.com/forestking19 Ryan Barcelo

        Life starts at fertilization, no doubt. If that fertilized egg is not implanted, not by accident but by intent as in the case of pills, it is murder. Why should this boil down to my faith? My faith has nothing to do with this. Sheer good reason can prove that pill is an abortifacient.

      • tamumd

        Yeah..that’s the definition spoon-fed to you by your catholic heirarchy!!! It’s funny how you try to deny that your faith has nothing to do with your views and your reasoning!!! Lokohin mo lelang mo..not me!!! I don’t buy that for a second!!! Again you insist that pills are “abortifacient” when it actually prevents pregnancy to happen! And I asked you if you blame your god and accuse him of commiting murder by allowing the close to 50% spontaneous abortions that occurs naturally! Yet you didn’t answer..I wonder why?!

      • http://profiles.google.com/forestking19 Ryan Barcelo

        Nobody is guilty of murder in spontaneous abortions or, simply, miscarriage because of the ABSENCE OF THE WILL to kill. In taking the pill, assuming the woman is aware of its abortifacient potential, there exists the will to kill. This is what is immoral. You cannot blame your god-less and my God here for they have nothing to do in this case. The issue here is the will to kill as it is the litmus test of whether such an act is moral or not. We don’t need Catholic morality in this regard; just sheer good reason.

        You are wrong in saying that the pill “prevents pregnancy to happen”.  The correct statement should be: The pill prevents conception to happen; but it doesn’t prevent fertilization, which is the beginning of life. Once the fertilized egg, that defenseless human being, IS WILLED to die by taking the pill, how do you call this act then?

  • UrHONOR

    NAMAN……bakit hindi si PUEBLO$?

  • 903

    I love Catholic Faith because it teaches me to love God and my Neighbor and also to honor the Mother of God.
    Being a Catholic, Priest or Protestant is not the problem…The problem is INDIFFERENCE, HATRED of neighbor. SIN in its ugliness cannot see love but only love of noisy selfishness and hatred of neighbor. I look for the Saints as inspiration as Mother Theresa, Pope John Paul, St. La Sale, St. Don Bosco, etc…
    as they bear good fruits and not like a noisy GONG.

    • tamumd

      And you think other christian denominations do not teach love of god and neighbor? Get off your high horse and holier-than- thou pedestal. The fact that you’re flaunting your religion is better than the others and that you “look up to saints for inspiration”…is as noisy a gong can get!!!!

  • http://profiles.google.com/forestking19 Ryan Barcelo

    Point of Order. Vidal and Rosales retired as “Archbishops”; they are now called “Archbishop Emeritus”. They do not retire as “Cardinals”; they are Cardinals for life unless they are elected pope. However, once they reach the age 80, they loose the right to vote in a Papal Conclave. If I am not mistaken, Vidal and Rosales have not yet reached the age of 80 and this is the reason why their successors are not yet given the “red hat.” Yes, soon Palma and Tagle will be named Cardinals, perhaps in the next Consistory, probably later next year.

  • tamumd

    Ryan Barcelo…I wonder who is the close-minded, conspiracy theory monger, religious hypocrite!!! And what do you exactly mean by “weathering”. Are the Scandinavian countries, the whole of europe, north america, japan, korea,china, singapore, thailand, australia, new zealand “weathering”? The last time i know those countries are rich and progressive with excellent social benefits for their citizens….and the catholic philippines is as poor as ever teeming with hungry,jobless,corrupt,criminal population!!! Meanwhile the catholic church have billions in investments in banks and stocks….money obviously they swindled from the unsuspecting, unquestioning, superstitious congregation!!! Did you read in the news today? Argentina will be allowing abortion to rape victims..considering they’re a catholic country too! So NO it’s not far-fetched our RH bill will become a law! And that will happen very SOON!!!! Watch!

    • http://profiles.google.com/forestking19 Ryan Barcelo

      Countries traditionally known as “Catholic” rose and fell and rose and fell and rose with the Catholic Church. Hence, there is no direct correlation between nation’s demise and the dominant faith of the people. Catholic belief is not apposed to progress. In fact, Science experienced its most glorious days under the protection of the Catholic Church. Yes, Galileo was condemned for his theory but such condemnation was not based on Catholic dogma but on the commonly accepted fact about the universe held that time. But, generally science was progressive under the protection of the Church; at present, science is progressive in the Catholic Church. US economy rose in a Christian milieu; yet, it also fell in the same.

      Here is the point: Progress of a nation is determined NOT by the dominant faith of the people but by the values held by its leaders, who most often than not are arrogant and unfriendly to religious leaders. Don’t be hypocrite! Religion has little to do with economic progress of a nation and experience can attest to that. Your strong anti-catholic bias is blocking your clear vision of reality.

      RH Bill in its current form cannot make it into law. I guarantee you that. If it will be reformed, perhaps as “Maternal and Child Health Care Bill”, it may have a chance.

      Truly, RH Bill in its entirety is not faulty. It has good provisions and I personally support them. But, its filthy contents outweigh the good that it brings and this is the reason that I oppose it.

      • tamumd

        Yeah continue to deny it!!! It’s not by accident that our country like most of South America and the whole of Africa are in such dire situation that we are now because of the stifling influence of the catholic church in economic development, health and science in general!!! They also love to make people to trust everything to god…which gives people false hope and make them helpless and lazy, hence they remain poor and uneducated!!! The developed world have moved on and had either made catholicism not the dominant religion or had completely relegated religion as a minor influencing force in their existence.
        Interesting that you brag about science flourishing under catholic church’s protection, really? Lemme see, you conceded that Galileo’s heliocentric ideas were suppressed and that led him to be placed under house arrest until his demise by the Inquisition (the current Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith) – mind you this is not a secular court but a religious tribunal mostly ran by the Dominicans. And for what accussation? – Heresy!!!  Is heresy a civil crime or a theological crime? Sorry Giordano Bruno, you’re just unlucky! You end up a barbecue on a stake!!! lol…For so long the church was antogonistic even hostile to scientific endeavour to the point it stunted the spread of scientific knowledge and stifled it to a flicker! From geography where they fought hard on the the sphericity of the earth based on the doctrine of the antipodes (championed by the famous Augustine of Hippo), denying it even long after Magellan circumnavigated the earth to banning of human dissection by Bonifice VIII which of course had a tremendous blow to growth of the field of anatomy, hence surgery and medicine all the way to banning and censoring of important scientific documents, treaties and books by consigning them to the Index of Prohibited Books including Keplers’, Galileo’s, Newton’s, Pascal’s, Darwin’s. etc. Then as now it is against certain medical intervention like use of oral contraception, condoms both for contraception and prevention of spread of HIV/STDs , IUD,stem cell among other things.

        A little over a century ago it resisted vaccination tooth and nails for theological reasons costing the lives of obedient, pious catholics in europe and north america. An example of this was the small pox epidemic in Montreal, Canada in the late 1900s. They are trying to undermine these kinds of activities now in Africa about the use of condom to prevent the spread of HIV and here in our country to not pass the RH bill to help poor family plan and control their family size!

        US might be a christian nation but it knows how to separate religious dogma from the needs of the secular state – the fact that it has RH law and allows abortion and capital punishment is a testament to that. And it is again not by accident that this is true to rest of the developed worlds!!!

        So the catholic church is ok with science and development just as long as it doesn’t contradict it’s dogmas. It wants a neutered, declawed and defanged science no matter if it costs people’s lives and suffering! That’s the disturbing irony of your concern for the sanctity of life!!!

      • http://profiles.google.com/forestking19 Ryan Barcelo

         No. The Catholic Church is ok with science and development as long as it does not oppose life and the dignity of the human person. You are wrong.

      • tamumd

        Sorry my friend!!! I presented you with specific examples and that’s all what you can say…I was wrong? Which one? lol

      • http://profiles.google.com/forestking19 Ryan Barcelo

         Yes. That’s all I can say. You are wrong in saying that “catholic church is ok with science and development just as long as it doesn’t contradict it’s dogmas”. The Catholic Church is ok with science and development as long as it does not oppose life and the dignity of the human person.

      • tamumd

        The use of condom to prevent the spread of HIV/STDs oppose life and the dignity of man? Seriously??!!! Between that and hiding and reassigning pedophile priests to protect the reputation of the church is more dignified and promotes the life of the ruined kids emotionally for life? Which one? It’s screaming blaring hypocrisy and misguided priorities to me!!!

      • http://profiles.google.com/forestking19 Ryan Barcelo

        Ahh, cmon. Why take up the issue of pedophile priests? Personally, I don’t care about it. It is the concern of the Bishops. All I can do is pray that the tiny number of abusive priests change. This trash is not the issue here.

        Condom is a different issue. It may not be opposed to life as it prevents the sperm from fertilizing the ovum; but many die of HIV/AIDS because of the “condom culture”. Try to check the work of Dr. Green of Harvard University and see for yourself how condom works once it becomes a health policy.

        Furthermore, more and more women are abused because of the “condom culture”. Do you think with this reality there is a promotion and protection of human dignity? Of women’s dignity?

        Again, tell it to the marines.

        BTW, condom is not a medicine. Why include it under the category of “essential medicine” in RH Bill? Are you guys out of your mind?! lol

      • tamumd

        I mentioned all those to show you where is the promotion of human dignity in the catholic church focus are! So yeah priest pedophilia is a fair game! You don’t wanna talk about it coz it’s shameful and indefensible!!! It’s shows how hypocrite the church is about protecting the dignity of life! Or is it protecting the dignity and reputation of the church?
        Long time ago it supports slavery and anti-vaccinations..all because these are supposed to be agains the will/words of an imagined god!!! Even it the result is treating humans like chattells or worst yet death!!! Was the holy spirit guiding the pope about infallible decisions then different from what it is now? Some freaking mumbo jumbo!

        Dr. Green was not against condom use! He was mainly concerned about the rise in HIV cases inspite of the use of condom in Africa and turns out the people in that study were using the condom thought they could have as many sex partners as they wish even if they knew they already are infected. So partly the education their was faulty. Here is his statement: ”
        Green also stated, “the distribution and marketing of condoms is not the solution or the best solution to African AIDS.”[14] When questioned on his belief that condom promotion should be a backup strategy, he answered, “they should have a back-up role even in the generalised epidemics of Africa. I believe condoms should be made available to everyone. It should be, and as you say, the ABC strategy: Abstinence, be faithful, use a condom.”.[14]

      • http://profiles.google.com/forestking19 Ryan Barcelo

        I did not say that Dr. Green is against condom use. Did I say that? Never. I was simply leading you to Dr. Green to consider his findings that more and more people die of HIV/AIDS due to over reliance on condom. Yes, it is true that he is in favor of ABC, but, no doubt, he holds that AB is the best solution to preventing the spread of HIV/AIDS and this is which the Catholic Church strongly supports. Clearly, the Catholic Church is for the most effective way of preventing the spread of HIV/AIDS and there is nothing wrong with it. It should not endorse a prophylactic that cannot guarantee the people protection from HIV/AIDS. This is not to mention the issue of human dignity.

        Again, let me reiterate that condom is never medicine, much less an essential medicine per “RH Bill”.

      • tamumd

        Isn’t the RH bill also endorsing ABC? No one is desputing that abstinence is not 100% effective. For those who can faithfully stick to it wonderful! NO one objects to that! The reality out there in the world however is people gotta have sex. That’s one of the basic human needs! Not everyone can stop them from doing that..so as a safety measure condom is the next best protection. What’s hard to understand there? And again the scientific/medical community never claim condom is 100%. Very few in this world can assure you 100% all the time..not even you god! The plain statins for cholesterol has an efficacy of only 21%..that sounds dismal yet it’s the no.#1 recommendation for cholesterol lowering, why? It’s because 21% is better than 0%.
        Technically condom is not a medicine, rather it should be called a medical device just like a pacemaker, an artificial joint, contact lens, IUD etc. However they were labeled essential because they are important and are part of the basic contraceptive options. Nothing senister and no conspiracy involved either!! lol

      • http://profiles.google.com/forestking19 Ryan Barcelo

         We are for AB and never for C.

        To avoid this clash, the solution is simple: put up your own “Philippine RH Foundation”. Gather all the support you can and deliver your services as you like. That way, we will have no problem and we end this discussion. Don’t complicate things. Kayo ang may gusto nyan, kayo ang gumawa. Huwag nyo kaming bulabugin sa kapraningan ninyo.

        Yes, condom is not a medicine but your RH bill is forcing us to accept that it is an “essential medicine.”

      • tamumd

        Don’t be absurd..show me the study that shows condom is related to abuse of women!!!

        Oh and sorry..your prayer wont make a dent on the scandal that surrounds priest pedophilia cases! lol I can bet you whatever outcome result from it..it’s not because of your prayer!! lol Don’t waste your time and spare your knees!!!

  • tamumd

    Ryan Barcelo…Obviously you have NO clue on the pharmacodynamics of oral contraceptives based on what you just ranted!!! It’s the same phrase given to you by your church that you verbatimly spit back out!
    Let me tell you how it works!!! Oral contraceptives mimic the female’s natural reproductive hormones estrogen and progesterone to “fool” the ovaries that ovulation cannot occur because of the high levels of these hormones. Since the release of trophic hormones (FSH/LH) from the pituitary depend on the negative feedback from the levels of estrogen and progesterone, high levels send a signal back to the pitiutary gland to suppress production of both FSH and LH. You’ll ask, what do these trophic hormones do? FSH is responsible for the maturation of egg cells and LH is responsible for the release of the once matured egg cell from the ovary, therefore if this exogenous hormonal levels (estrogen/progestin from the pill) are kept constantly high day in and day out for a month at a time, there’s no maturation and release of egg cell that could occur because FSH and LH are suppressed all the time. NO egg cell, NO fertilization! That is the basis for its use in contraception! And as any other therapeutic modalities that do not assure 100% safety net, more like 98-99% there are other mechanisms that these hormones influence the female reproductive organs! The progestin part of the oral contraceptives also makes the mucus plug in the cervix thick enough so that a sperm cannot enter it. It also prevent sufficient thickening of the uterine lining to not allow for adequate implantation. Both of these hormones alter the contractions of the muscles in the fallopian tubes to hinder fertilization. These physiologic changes are so far-fetched from your misinformed concept of how this medication works that its use cannot be considered an iota of murder.

    So if no one is responsible for the close to 50% spontaneous abortion that occurs, then who is? Why can’t your god not do something about it to prevent it from occuring in the first place because it’s murderous and immoral? Is it because he is a weak god and has no power to stop it or maybe he is non-existent? I think I’ll go for the latter!!!

    • http://profiles.google.com/forestking19 Ryan Barcelo

      I know this. But, you cannot deny the fact that a woman, despite taking pills and despite doctors’ hallucination that they are 100% precise in their formulae, may ovulate and the ovum may be fertilized. Studies have shown it and you RH advocates do not like to talk about it. You are misleading the people; you are spreading half truths. The fact remains that fertilization may occur despite talking pills and the people have the right to know about this. 

      Yes, women should have a choice since this is a pluralistic society; but, this should be based on complete information. Health workers should have the courage to say: “With pills, you may not conceive; but, there is a chance that you ovulate and your egg is fertilized and later, SURELY, aborted” and let the woman and her husband decide if they have the guts of killing a life. And, let those who would like to avail of this service pay, not the taxpayers who, in conscience, can’t afford paying for this immoral service. Hence, there is no need for RH law. This way, we have nothing to argue.

      As I have said, nobody is guilty of murder in miscarriage precisely because of the absence of the will to kill. Is this difficult to understand? Use your mind and not your blind ideology. If miscarriage is not murder and therefore not immoral, what is your problem? Of course, we should do everything in our power to assist pregnant women to prevent miscarriage and the pill is not a solution to it.

      You asked: “So if no one is responsible for the close to 50% spontaneous abortion that occurs, then who is?” The answer is certainly not your godless and my God; neither the woman. Aha, I know where this question is leading and the answer should be: THE CATHOLIC CHURCH!!!!

      Wha!!! Tell that to the marines.

      • tamumd

        So if you already knew the above, how come you and the rest of the catholic minions keep saying it’s murderous to use oral contraceptives? I thought your church teaches “thou shalt not lie”?

        And who told you that healthcare/medical professionals hide informations to the public about medications including oral contraceptives? I dunno who did you learn that from but each of these people has an ethical professional responsibility to disclose everything about a certain medication before prescribing and dispensing them that I already alluded in my previous threads. Doctors and nurses and pharmacists has nothing to gain to hide these kinds of information, only to lose…i.e. going to jail for being negligent and witholding vital information resulting in uninformed consent. Not to mention the guilt that one is causing undue emotional distress to the women and couple! So please don’t make up things just to support your scare tactics so that the less informed public would buy your misguided plea for life. Well at least I’m glad that you agree, it’s women’s/couple’s personal choice whether or not to use contraceptives. So let’s help those who are less fortunate to have that option!!! Let’s pass the RH bill ASAP!

        You know I don’t believe in conspiracy theories! I was being facetious about the question”who cause the close to 50% spontaneous abortion”? I know the answer….NO one! Neither man nor some imagined deity – the one that I was trying to get into! The fact is there’re alot of factors why this phenomenon occur that ranged from the female’s hormone levels to the state of “readiness” of the female reproductive tract all the way to the integrity of the newly fertilized ovum. It’s nature’s way of getting rid of the “unfit” conceptus. Again I am not that crazy to think that the catholic church secretly causes these spontaneous abortions!!! That’s lame! Only you kind of people could pull that b…….s…..lol

      • http://profiles.google.com/forestking19 Ryan Barcelo

        Until now, I haven’t heard of one official from DOH or from WHO saying in public: “With pills, you may not conceive; but, there is a chance that you
        ovulate and your egg is fertilized and later, SURELY, aborted”, NADA. You know of one? Tell me. This is a simple proof that they are propagating HALF TRUTHS. At the end of the day, half truths are lies.

        I agree that women should have a choice to take or not to take pills; but, those who would like to avail of it should pay for it. If they can’t afford it, they go to people like you to ask for donations so they can take their pills. I and many of us should not be forced to pay taxes that will be used to fund RH. No way!

        We don’t need the RH Bill. I don’t need that. What you need to do is create perhaps a “Philippine RH Foundation” and ask all your supporters, including WHO and UN, to contribute so you can push forward with your agenda without disturbing our conscience and you can “help” the poor.

        I am now helping you how you can go about this rubbish without bothering us. Keep this RH b…. s….. in your own pocket.

      • tamumd

        Why would a DOH or a WHO official talk to you about those kinda things…it’s the reponsibility of the prescribing physician or despensing nurse or pharmacist in the trenches who does those things! And have you gone to one? I bet you have not!!! So you cannot make generalizations that that is what’s going on. I will say it again, it’s those medical professionals ethical responsibility to talk everything about a medication before they are prescibed! There’s NO conspiracy move to withold any information to the general public!

        You think you’re the only one paying taxes? And if I need contraceptive services I won’t get it from the government since I can afford to acquire them. It’s those who have no wherewithal that would benefit this. And it’s not up to you or me to decide what the government wants to the do with the money we pay for our taxes as long as they’re used for the good and general welfare of the majority! If you don’t pay your tax because you oppose the RH bill, BIR won’t even take that as an excuse! It’s either you’ll be fined or you’ll go to jail..simple as that!!! lol

      • http://profiles.google.com/forestking19 Ryan Barcelo

        With RH Bill, you are proposing the pill as part of the health policy of the government. With this, DOH and its backer the WHO and UN have the obligation to tell the public the truth about the pill. This is the point. Gets? Your excuse does not stand. Sorry.

        I did not say that I am the only one paying taxes. I am saying that I will oppose measures that will force me to pay taxes that will be used to fund immoral services like the pill. I have all the right to have conscience protection from the state and I will not hesitate to go to the Supreme Court to challenge any measure that will violate this basic right. The solution to this problem is simple, do your RH rubbish your way, funded by you and do not disturb us. If you are concerned with those who cannot afford RH services, I already gave you a suggestion: establish a “Philippine RH Foundation” providing RH services to all funded by people like you. Do not impose RH on us. Do not force us to do something against our conscience. Keep that b…. s…. among yourselves.

        Don’t worry, my friend. I am willing to go to jail for fighting for my rights. I assure you that.

      • tamumd

        All those information are readily and openly available for anyone to see. No one is hiding any information as I already said for the nth time! And again if you approach a gynecologist, general practitioner, public health nurse they are more than happy to tell you everything you need to know..not just about contraception but any medication they prescribe and dispense!

        Heck you can go to every court in the land as you wish for all we care! Just don’t pull that conscience protection excuse! No one is forcing you and your family to use contraceptives, period!!! You don’t have to do anything if you don’t want to have do with it! If you get your way..I also would want to go to the court to not use my money to build a road going to your house or have water connection to your house because my conscience say that Ryan Barcelo is letting those poor family who wants to control the size of their family to make them more poorer…resulting in more children that litter the streets of Manila. Who goes to bed hungry. Who resorts to snatching and some petty crimes if not henious crime like murder. Who ends up using drugs because they end up not going to school. Who ends up getting pregnant at a very young age continuing the cycle of more children and poverty and misery. So you get where I am going with this?

        Well goodluck on your jail time..I know I won’t be visiting you!!! I can assure you that!

      • http://profiles.google.com/forestking19 Ryan Barcelo

        Yeah, It is readily available but DOH, WHO and UN do not help to make it accessible because they know that will be a stumbling block to their agenda. The public has all the right to know on what is being imposed on them through RH Bill. Do not use the health practitioners as your scapegoat. Let DOH do its job. It is their obligation to inform the people.

        If you think your money is not used wisely in building roads and you think your right is being violated, go to court. Similarly, for all I care! Just don’t impose on me your RH bill. Do it yourself. Fund it yourself. If you care about the poor for their RH services, you raise funds for them. Don’t force us to give you money to fund RH services.

        Don’t worry, I won’t wait for your visit in jail. I assure you that.

      • tamumd

        Go to the DOH office if you want to know everything about contraceptions. They would be more than willing to explain  everything to you! If the RH bill becomes law, there’s a built-in educated portion that would talk about all these as well. So let it be passed first so that you can see what it’s all about.

        And who said someone is emposing the RH bill on you??!! NO one..as I said you can completely ignore it if you don’t want to have to do with it! Just don’t deprive the people who wants to avail those services!!!

        Good..don’t wait for me, coz i am definitely not going!! lol

      • http://profiles.google.com/forestking19 Ryan Barcelo

        It is not I who need that information. It is the general public who will be affected by your proposed law. For DOH to be efficient, it should broadcast on TV and Radio the truth about the pill.

        Eventually, you will be imposing RH on me for I will be forced to contribute for its implementation through my tax. I cannot ignore it. I labor for every peso that I earn and that includes my tax.

        I certainly wont wait for you.

      • tamumd

        Again….it’s not up to you to decide whatever the government wants to do with the tax you pay!!! If you pay taxes like in the millions, so can be pretty sure some of it goes to funding RH law, but if you’re only paying a few hundreds or thousands think of your taxes going to the fund that help to maintain the road going to you village or subdivision or to buy free books for public school children, etc!!! lol..if that makes you feel better!!!

      • http://profiles.google.com/forestking19 Ryan Barcelo

         Fine. Let the government decide and I will challenge it in court. Surely it is not just I, there are many of us. Government cannot trample with our rights just to give in to the wants of radical ideologues like you.  Push your RH  Bill your way, by your own pockets.

      • tamumd

        And you think we’re not a big group too? In fact the “radical ideologues” that you call are progressive catholics who actually do not blindly listen to what your heirarchy is telling them to do! Again…you have every right to challenge it! You can go to every court in the country for all we care! We will push for this bill to become a law! No one is trampling on your right! It’s an imagined lunacy that someone is trampling on your right coz no one is forcing you and your family to use contraception!!!

      • tamumd

        And you think we’re not a big group too? In fact the “radical ideologues” that you call are progressive catholics who actually do not blindly listen to what your heirarchy is telling them to do! Again…you have every right to challenge it! You can go to every court in the country for all we care! We will push for this bill to become a law! No one is trampling on your right! It’s an imagined lunacy that someone is trampling on your right coz no one is forcing you and your family to use contraception!!! In other democracy….the things you guys are doing is incomprehensible! Any church cannot dictate how the state should be ran including how the laws should be framed!!! In France you cannot even wear cross to an official state function and public official are expected to keep their beliefs to themselves and not flaunt it. More so legislate it! So the catholic church in the Philippines thinks it has a special privilage to just meddle in the affairs of the state! Well NO more!!! People knows better as evidence by the reactions in different fora here. You could say our country is 85% catholics but please remember not all those are 100% in agreement with your heirarchy! We need to start looking at the catholic church as a foreign power meddling in the internal affair of a sovereign state. And awaken the nationalist spirit of the people!!! Maybe that would help temper your church influence!!! You see…I am for freedom of worship and religion..just as long as your mind yourself and keep it to yourself because there are plenty of people that do not share yours! So remember that!!!

      • tamumd

        And you think we’re not a big group too? In fact the “radical ideologues” that you call are progressive catholics who actually do not blindly listen to what your heirarchy is telling them to do! Again…you have every right to challenge it! You can go to every court in the country for all we care! We will push for this bill to become a law! No one is trampling on your right! It’s an imagined lunacy that someone is trampling on your right coz no one is forcing you and your family to use contraception!!! In other democracies….the things you guys are doing is incomprehensible! Any church cannot dictate how the state should be ran including how the laws should be framed!!! In France you cannot even wear a cross to an official state function and public official are expected to keep their beliefs to themselves and not flaunt it. More so legislate it! So the catholic church in the Philippines thinks it has a special privilege to just meddle in the affairs of the state! Well NO more!!! People knows better as evidence by the reactions in different fora here. You could say our country is 85% catholics but please remember not all those are 100% in agreement with your heirarchy! We need to start looking at the catholic church as a foreign power meddling in the internal affair of a sovereign state. And awaken the nationalist spirit of the people!!! Maybe that would help temper your church influence!!! You see…I am for freedom of worship and religion..just as long as you mind yourself and keep it to yourself because there are plenty of other people who do not share yours! So remember that!!!

  • tamumd

    And you think we’re not a big group too? In fact the “radical ideologues” that you call are progressive catholics who actually do not blindly listen to what your heirarchy is telling them to do! Again…you have every right to challenge it! You can go to every court in the country for all we care! We will push for this bill to become a law! No one is trampling on your right! It’s an imagined lunacy that someone is trampling on your right coz no one is forcing you and your family to use contraception!!!

    Did you complain and went to the court when the Mitsubishops shamelessly demanded SUVs from the government? Heck NO!!! You guys were making a lot of excuses. The gall to demand vehicles as “birthday gifts” from the govenment’s coffers??!! Imagine that…even when they have billions of pesos in investments tax free!!! That’s greedy! That’s how bad and abusive of special privilege your church had become!

    In other democracies….the things you guys are doing is incomprehensible! Any church cannot dictate how the state should be ran including how the laws should be framed!!! In France you cannot even wear a cross to an official state function and public officials are expected to keep their beliefs to themselves and not flaunt it. More so legislate it! So the catholic church in the Philippines thinks it has a special privilege to just meddle in the affairs of the state! Well NO more!!! People knows better as evidence by the reactions in different fora here.

    You could say our country is 85% catholics but please remember not all those are 100% in agreement with your heirarchy! We need to start looking at the catholic church as a foreign power meddling in the internal affair of a sovereign state. And awaken the nationalist spirit of the people!!! Maybe that would help temper your church’s influence!!!

    You see…I am for freedom of worship and religion..just as long as you mind yourself and keep it to yourself because there are plenty of other people who do not share yours! So remember that!!! I am so glad we don’t live in the 15th century anymore, otherwise I would have end up in a cauldron of hot oil or a fiery pile of wood!!! lol. We will be watching closely every move the catholic church does with regards to its attempts to influence and moves to meddle in the state’s affairs!!!

    • http://profiles.google.com/forestking19 Ryan Barcelo

      Push that Bill and we will always be there to block you. I assure you that. You cannot trample with our rights. You cannot impose on us such a filthy Bill. I already gave you my suggestion so we will not divide this nation on this issue. But you are so stubborn in insisting that we should be involved in your crime of killing babies through funding your pills program, through funding the RH Bill. I told you, the solution to this problem is simple: create your own “Philippine RH Foundation”. Let your supporters, including WHO and UN, contribute to that foundation and do your RH programs and services yourselves. End of argumentation. Wala na tayong pagtatalunan. Hindi na sana masasayang oras ko sa kasasagot sa iyo. Huwag mo kami idamay sa kalukohan ninyo. Kahit umabot kayo sa Mars or sa Pluto para sa inyong RH programs, we won’t really care. Preach RH to the aliens. Perhaps, they will be receptive to it.

      I don’t care about your anti-Catholic feelings or anger. Kung galit ka sa Catholic Church, magalit ka. Kahit sumabog ulo mo sa galit sa Catholic Church, I won’t mind. After all, you cannot tear down the Catholic Church. It’s an institution that was born long before you were born and it will surely outlive you. Papatulan ko lang galit mo kung kaya niyan patumbahin ang buong institution. So, be angry to your heart’s content. Kung yan ang kaligayahan mo, magpakaligaya ka. Huwag mo lang kami idamay sa kapraningan mo sa RH Bill.

      End of story. Bubye. Ayoko nang paulit-ulit. Parang sirang plaka. At kung saan saan na rin napunta itong usapan na ito.

      Now, do your homework. Plan how you can establish the “Philippine RH Foundation, Inc.” Good luck. I won’t say “God bless”. Di ka naman naniniwala sa God and surely, God won’t bless such nonsensical, unnecessary, irrational, anti-life project. So, again, good luck. Bubye.

      • tamumd

        lol..ah someone is giving up and throwing the gloves! Are you running away because you don’t wanna hear the filth of the catholic church? I’m not! Funny how you only see your imagined right being trampled when you’re actually crossing the line that divides the secular state and the church. In the process infringing on other’s right as well!!! So sorry, we won’t be budging and won’t be dictated by a church even if it claims to be the majority! NO way Jose!!! Again no one is forcing you and the whole of catholic fanatics to use contraception if it is against your archaic dogmas! If you think you will be helping it because of your tax money,heck you’re paying taxes now even before RH is in place! So what difference that that makes. If you don’t wanna pay your taxes when the RH bill becomes law. Either you uproot your church in the Philippines or you move to the Vatican ( as virtually every place on this earth has some form of RH laws) because I can assure you with almost 100% certainty, BIR won’t take RH bill as an excuse for not paying it! So you are definitely more than welcome to try it if you want! Yours will be the precedent case! lol

        Again…we don’t have anything against organized religion and worship just as long as that religion knows it’s proper place in society! Do you hear us say anything about the INCs? the Methodists?, the Episcopalians?, the Aglipayans? the Mormons? Jehova’s Witnesses? The Baptists? NO because those people know their role even if they do not agree with some of the laws of the land.

        If we agree to create a foundation just so we won’t hurt the feelings of a particular church and their dogmas, that is tantamount to the catholic church running the Philippine government! The US government whose constitution the Philippines’ is pattern after at least don’t think so! They have catholics there too and bible-thumping Protestants yet they have RH laws, abortion and even capital punishment. Did you even think about that? Notwithstanding we will consider your suggestion of establishing your ridiculous foundation if it will be funded by the Philippine catholic church’s investment dividends!!! lol

        Oh you are right about blessings! I sure would have returned it back to you. Blessings are for delusional folks who think there are deity residing up in the clouds watching their every move, controlling the day to day affairs of their lives! So dream on..sorry no pun intended!!! lol



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