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Nazarene devotion: Portrait of a nation

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VIVA SEÑOR NAZARENO! The Black Nazarene is being prepared for Monday’s procession. For the author, it is his annual rite to beg for forgiveness and his renewal of his subscription to God’s grace. RAFFY LERMA

There are unwritten rules that the initiate must learn for a safe and proper participation in the annual fiesta procession of the Mahal na Poong Nazareno in Quiapo.

Unlike grammar and composition though, there’s no school where the cadence and idiom of this immensely popular religious ritual are taught.

As a result, it’s often to each his own, the wilder the holier, as the miraculous image of the Black Nazarene stammers through frenzied streets, under constant siege from a maddened multitude trying to beat one another, jumping, pushing and shoving, in a blind rush to reestablish a link with the Lord.

A first-timer who observes the procession from a safe distance, say the Quezon Bridge, is bound to be mystified and wonder what, honestly, it is all about.

Masterpiece in madness

It’s the only one of its kind in the world, a masterpiece in madness, a canvas of immeasurable chaos.

For Monday’s procession, the Philippine National Police (PNP) has doubled security and assigned a total of 1,600 policemen to patrol the environs.

Manila Mayor Alfredo Lim has made a televised appeal for order, warning those who are caught with intoxicating drinks that they will be apprehended and fined.

“If they allow liquor along the route, this would result in a strenuous day,” the mayor said.

Well said, but doesn’t the annual ritual itself thrive on naked veneration, intoxicated pagan faith?

Last Thursday, I got instructions from my original mentor, my Big Boss here, which said: “Please write for Sunday issue, page 1, your entire Nazarene experience, what’s the Nazarene in your life.”

The deadline was set for Friday; I had to beg for a one-day reprieve.

Honestly, I had wanted to ask for at least a month, if not a year, because you can’t be expected to complete an epic at the drop of a hat.

Epic tale

Of course, there’s nothing truly grand in my affair with the Black Nazarene. It’s the scope of its relevance and influence that could more than fill a book.

Like the majority of devotees, I first joined the procession seasons ago, in thanksgiving, when I was in my late 20s.

I did not start out alone, but had gone to Quiapo, barefoot, with five other first-timers from our riverside village in Mandaluyong.

I had no idea how to go about it, so I first observed from the sidelines.

There was no available space even from a distance and that, coming close to the procession line, would itself prove an ordeal.

It was an anxious wait, but once I had summoned the courage, I tried to move in, inch after excruciating inch, and gingerly pushed my right shoulder through a couple of burning bodies, before tugging at the thick rope pulling the Nazarene.

Breaking in was surprisingly easy, but soon enough, the man behind me put his hand on my head and pushed it a little to the left, the better to save me from undue harm.

He next reminded me to always keep the rope secure on my shoulder.

Moving in cadence

It was smooth sailing, and then one veteran devotee ahead of us shouted indayog (sway) to send the line moving in cadence.

I observed some of those close by whose eyes were closed, some with tears, as they trotted in solemn, wordless rhythm.

After we had traversed, trouble-free, a full block, a huge horde of waiting devotees jumped in and swarmed our flank.

There was severe disruption, followed by a shout of otso before everything went haywire.

I tried desperately to hold on, but in an instant, the atmosphere turned musty. I tried to breathe deep to maintain my balance but the area had turned airless and definitely deathly.

I had no choice but to raise my left hand in surrender.

Someone instantly pulled me out from the line that by then had felt like a smoke-choked burning room.

The basics learned

I did learn the basic rules in my first try.

After that debut, my first salang, I sat on the pavement.

I felt wasted but quietly ecstatic.

It was not easy to explain at first.

But, more than 30 years after I first participated in the annual Quiapo ritual, I have no reason to deny the Black Nazarene is anything but wood when borne in procession, whether solemn or pagan.

Anyway, I was to learn that, unlike me, not all of those in my group had succeeded in breaking in and tugging at the rope pulling the Nazarene the first time they tried.

This would not be the case with one famous broadcaster who went on to become the country’s vice president.

The fellow was herded trouble-free into the line, complete with television coverage.

He was a success, was even filmed grabbing perilously at the snaking rope, a no-no in the rules of the procession.

He has never again been seen in Quiapo after that well-publicized debut.

Canvas of despair

Of course, the most tragic sight I had from the procession came in the early 1990s, on the pavement outside the Galaxy Theater on Rizal Avenue where I passed by the figure of a poor man, obviously lifeless, being guarded by a lone candle deep in the cold night.

The next day, a picture came out in the papers saying the nameless man had lost his life in the procession. It was not specified whether he choked or was crushed and trampled upon.

There was no doubt he tried to join the procession, which has turned into a gigantic canvas of despair and utter poverty, a portrait of our poor nation, to beg for some material solace.

In my case, I continue to go to the procession to beg forgiveness, and in the process rekindling my links, not unlike a simple customer, annually renewing subscription to the Lord’s grace.

Yes, I also beseech the Nazarene to grant me the ability to write at least one true sentence each living day.

I’m seldom successful.

But I have no reason whatsoever not to be eternally thankful.

First posted 12:14 am | Sunday, January 8th, 2012
Viva Señor Nazareno!


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Tags: Black Nazarene devotees , Black Nazarene procession , Feast of the Black Nazarene , Manila Mayor Alfredo Lim , Quiapo ritual


  • Populovich

    FOR THE WISE AND THOSE WHO HUNGER GOD…..READ THESE:

    Exodus 20:4-6 (NKJV)  
    “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; [5] you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, [6] but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. 

    Isaiah 44:9-20 (NKJV) Those who make an image, all of them are useless, And their precious things shall not profit; They are their own witnesses; They neither see nor know, that they may be ashamed. [10] Who would form a god or mold an image That profits him nothing? [11] Surely all his companions would be ashamed; And the workmen, they are mere men. Let them all be gathered together, Let them stand up; Yet they shall fear, They shall be ashamed together. [12] The blacksmith with the tongs works one in the coals, Fashions it with hammers, And works it with the strength of his arms. Even so, he is hungry, and his strength fails; He drinks no water and is faint. [13] The craftsman stretches out his rule, He marks one out with chalk; He fashions it with a plane, He marks it out with the compass, And makes it like the figure of a man,    According to the beauty of a man, that it may remain in the house. [14] He cuts down cedars for himself, And takes the cypress and the oak; He secures it for himself among the trees of the forest. He plants a pine, and the rain nourishes it. [15] Then it shall be for a man to burn, For he will take some of it and warm himself; Yes, he kindles it and bakes bread; Indeed he makes a god and worships it; He makes it a carved image, and falls down to it. [16] He burns half of it in the fire; With this half he eats meat; He roasts a roast, and is satisfied. He even warms himself and says, ”Ah! I am warm, I have seen the fire.”  [17] And the rest of it he makes into a god, His carved image. He falls down before it and worships it, Prays to it and says, ”Deliver me, for you are my god!” [18] They do not know nor understand; For He has shut their eyes, so that they cannot see, And their hearts, so that they cannot understand.  [19] And no one considers in his heart, Nor is there knowledge nor understanding to say, ”I have burned half of it in the fire, Yes, I have also baked bread on its coals; I have roasted meat and eaten it; And shall I make the rest of it an abomination? Shall I fall down before a block of wood?”  [20] He feeds on ashes; A deceived heart has turned him aside; And he cannot deliver his soul, Nor say, “Is there not a lie in my right hand?” 

    • just_anotherperson

      YOU SHALL NOT MAKE FOR YOURSELF A GRAVEN IMAGE . . .

      The divine injunction included the prohibition of every representation of God by the hand of man. Deuteronomy explains: “Since you saw no form on the day that the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the midst of the fire, beware lest you act corruptly by making a graven image for yourselves, in the form of any figure. . . . It is the absolutely transcendent God who revealed himself to Israel. “He is the all,” but at the same time “he is greater than all his works. He is “the author of beauty.”

      Nevertheless, already in the Old Testament, God ordained or permitted the making of images that pointed symbolically toward salvation by the incarnate Word: so it was with the bronze serpent, the ark of the covenant, and the cherubim.

      Basing itself on the mystery of the incarnate Word, the seventh ecumenical council at Nicaea justified against the iconoclasts the veneration of icons – of Christ, but also of the Mother of God, the angels, and all the saints. By becoming incarnate, the Son of God introduced a new “economy” of images.

      The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, “the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype,” and “whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it. The honor paid to sacred images is a “respectful veneration,” not the adoration due to God alone:

      Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. The movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is.

      Ref: Catechism of the Catholic Church, para 2129

      • Populovich

        This is where truth and lies split.  Many people people follow the unscriptural tradition of men.  Wise people who seek God follow God’s tradition.  There is nothing in the Bible that says we should worship or venerate any image.  On the contrary God forbids it.  It is an abomination to Him.  Satan blinded this world that he deceives people with this false teaching of men.  This is why it is are hard for us to follow God but easily swayed by men’s teaching.  Even people called Mary mother of God.  Wrong.  She is the mother of Jesus, the human person.  God become incarnate and took the form of a humble man.  Jesus had two natures, man and God.  Being man his mother was Mary.  But being God He has no beginning and no end, Alpha and Omega.  Let us read the Bible, the very Word of God, to learn the truth, and the truth shall set us free from Satan’s deception.

        We believe that Mary was a virtuous woman, chosen by God to
        be the mother of Jesus Christ. Moreover, she was a virgin at His birth. On the
        other hand, we do not pray to Mary nor make images of her because the Bible
        teaches: You shall do homage to the Lord your God; Him alone shall you adore
        (Luke 4:8). The Bible consistently teaches that prayer should be directed to
        God the Father. When the disciples asked Jesus, “Teach us to pray,”
        the first thing He said was “when you pray, say Our Father” and then
        went on to teach the Lord’s prayer. Jesus once asked another group of people,
        “Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and then not do what I say?” Since
        Jesus asks us to pray to the Father, let’s do it!

        Sometimes those who want us to pray to Mary say that since
        she was the mother of Jesus, He always granted her everything she asked of Him.
        You may judge for yourself whether or not this is true after reading the
        following passage from the Bible. His mother and his brothers arrived, and
        as they stood outside they sent word to Him to come out. The crowd seated
        around Him told Him, “Your mother and your brothers and sisters are
        outside asking for you.” He said in reply, “Who are my mother and my
        brothers? and gazing around Him at those seated in the circle He continued,
        “These are my mother and my brothers. Whoever does the will of God is
        brother and sister and mother to me” (Mark 3:31-35).

        In the Bible, there is no example of anyone ever trying to
        go to Jesus or God the Father through Mary. Instead we read, God is one. One
        also is the mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus who gave Himself
        as a ransom for all (1 Timothy 2:5-6). Jesus said, I am the way, and the
        truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through me. (John
        14:6). Christ is the only mediator. He puts us directly in touch with God by
        taking away the sins that separated us, so that we can come to Him directly.

        History informs us that prayers to Mary began around the
        end of the fourth century after Christ. Certainly if she had still been alive
        she would not have permitted this practice! As a pious woman, she would never
        have accepted prayer, as it should be directed to God alone.

        In Italy,
        the very center of Roman Catholicism, people tend to pray to the various images
        of Mary. Furthermore, they commonly believe each individual image has
        particular abilities. A number are believed to possess the power to heal in an
        exceptional way. Others protect from the lava of Mt. Vesuvius.
        Others are thought to protect particular groups of people, such as fishermen.
        The churches with statues which are particularly revered promote this belief.
        As a result, many people will drive for miles, passing hundreds of images of
        Mary to get to the one they think can help them the most. This is obviously
        idolatry and it is not this that I wish to discuss here as it has nothing to do
        with Mary who is one. Her powers do not change from statue to statue.

        Rather, let us look at Mary, the mother of Jesus, a real
        woman like many of you who are reading this book. We believe that she was a
        fine woman, because God chose her for a very special task which would bring her
        to prominence and cause her to be held up as an example. There is, however, no
        reason to believe that she was conceived without sin, because after the birth
        of Christ we find her in the temple offering a sacrifice for her purification (Luke
        2:22-24). This is the same
        action that all the Hebrew women took after childbirth (Leviticus 12). In
        addition, in her prayer of thanksgiving for being chosen to be the mother of
        Christ, Mary calls God my Savior (Luke 1:47). Had she been born without sin, she would not have
        needed either an offering for purification, or a savior.

        The church of Rome teaches that Mary should be called the
        mother of God, an expression that is never used in the Bible. The reasoning is
        that she is the Mother of Jesus Christ, and He is God. While at first glance
        the reasoning sounds acceptable, if she were the mother of God, we would have
        to conclude that the creature was the mother of the creator: that is that Mary,
        who was born at a particular moment of history, was the mother of everything
        about God which has existed from all eternity (Genesis 1:1; John 1:1-3, 14).
        The Bible does not teach this. Instead, it teaches that God, who has always
        existed, took on a human nature by means of the virgin birth. Thus Mary was the
        mother of Christ’s human nature, but not of His divine nature which has existed
        from all eternity (John 8:57-58).
        To avoid causing confusion on this point, we prefer not to use the term mother
        of God.

        While the Bible teaches that Mary was a virgin at Christ’s
        birth, it gives us no reason to believe that she remained a virgin all of her
        lifetime. In fact, Mary was obedient to God who, when speaking of married
        people, said that the man shall leave his father and mother and cleave to his
        wife and that they two should become one flesh (Ephesians 5:31 and Matthew
        19:6). Speaking specifically about Mary and Joseph, the Bible explains: He
        had no relations with her at any time before she bore a son, whom he named
        Jesus (Matthew 1:25).
        This passage obviously establishes the fact that Joseph had not had relations
        with Mary before the birth of Jesus, and other passages clearly declare that
        she was a virgin at His birth. Stating, He had no relations with her at any
        time before she bore a son, however, purposely excludes from the time in
        which they had no relations, the time after she had a son. Neither do any of
        the other passages which speak of Mary’s virginity ever infer that she was to
        remain a virgin after Christ’s birth. Rather, it is implied that after the
        birth of Christ, Mary and Joseph had normal husband-wife relations. To maintain
        that Mary remained a virgin all of her life infers that she did not obey God’s
        will for married women, and this does not really honor her. 

      • jin2012

        just_anotherperson:

        Yes, Yahweh permitted certain images (like the cherub for His Ark of the Covenant) to be made for very specific reasons as seen in the Bible.  

        Now ask yourself, and if you want eternal life (John 17:3) then search the God-inspired scriptures (2 Timothy 3:16-17) of the Bible, did Yahweh permit the images of the “Black Nazarene”, Mary, Jesus, Sto.Nino, Saint xyz, Moses, Elijah, Elisha, Isaiah, the Prophets, King David, King Solomon, etc… be made and bow down to by anyone including the Catholics? Did the greatest Teacher, our Lord Jesus Christ bow down to any images, or venerate them, when he showed us the way, the truth, and the life, as an example to worship God?

        Examine these, very clear commands, for yourself.
        Matthew 5:17-20
        Isaiah 42:8
        2Corinthians 6:16
        1John
        Leviticus 26:1
        Jeremiah 10:14-15
        Deuteronomy 7:25-26
        1Corinthians 10:14,20
        Ezekiel 14:6
        Exodus 20:2-17
        Isaiah 40,18
        2Corinthians 5:7
        John 4:23-24

        I leave you with this: Galatians 5:20-21
        “idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

      • mal0c

        it’s idolatry. yet the priests permit em. tradition they say. faith they say. they say a lot of crap, i say. educate the people the correct way and not tolerate em.
        bunch of hypocrites anyway, they carry christ but i bet you can hear em scream vulgarity on that occassion.

  • kismaytami

    People, prepare yourselves for the ‘trapik’, este ‘salvation’ pala.

  • justonebyte

    I CAN ONLY PITY THE POOR AND IGNORANT PEOPLE OF THE PHILIPPINES! THIS IS JUST SICK!!!!

  • Fulpol

    Nazarene devotion: a prophesy saying Filipinos will be forever poor and ignorant…

    hahahaha
    hahahahahah
    hahahahahahah

  • wawa_pinoy

    This is sick. This ritual bears great similarity to Israel’s adoration of the golden calf. This is a clearly worshipping a piece of object which was a common sin among Israel’s people, which kindled God’s wrath. Now do not be surprised if this country is going to the dogs.

    • sonnygc

      It is indeed paganism, to worship a wooden object created by someone. God according to the scriptures hate idol worship yet we keep insisting in in disobeying His  2nd Commandment, Exodus 20:4-5 bringing upon the nation God’s wrath. May I ask Why are we doing this?

  • browndarwinian

    I cannot help but ponder on a passage from “The God Delusion”:

    “But it is especially the Roman Catholic branch of Christianity that pushes its recurrent flirtation with polytheism towards runaway inflation. The Trinity is (are?) joined by Mary, ‘Queen of Heaven’, goddess in all but name, who surely runs God himself a close second as a target of prayers. The pantheon is further swollen by an army of saints, whose intercessory power makes them, if not demigods, well worth approaching on their own specialist subjects. The Catholic Community Forum helpfully lists 5,120 saints, together with their areas of expertise, which include [alphabetically] abdominal pains, abuse victims, anorexia, arms dealers, blacksmiths, broken bones, bomb technicians and bowel disorders, to venture no further than the Bs. And we mustn’t forget the four Choirs of Angelic Hosts, arrayed in nine orders: Seraphim, Cherubim, Thrones, Dominions, Virtues, Powers, Principalities, Archangels (heads of all hosts), and just plain old Angels, including our closest friends, the ever-watchful Guardian Angels…”

    “Pope John Paul II created more saints than all his predecessors of the past several centuries put together, and he had a special affinity with the Virgin Mary. His polytheistic hankerings were dramatically demonstrated in 1981 when he suffered an assassination attempt in Rome, and attributed his survival to intervention by Our Lady of Fatima: ‘A maternal hand guided the bullet.’ One cannot help wondering why she didn’t guide it to miss him altogether. Others might think the team of surgeons who operated on him for six hours deserved at least a share of the credit; but perhaps their hands, too, were maternally guided. The relevant point is that it wasn’t just Our Lady who, in the Pope’s opinion, guided the bullet, but specifically Our Lady OF FATIMA. Presumably Our Lady of Lourdes, Our Lady of Guadalupe, Our Lady of Medjugorje, Our Lady of Akita, Our Lady of Zeitoun, Our Lady of Garabandal and Our Lady of Knock were busy on other errands at the time.”

    “Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.”

    watch?v=kY32g1bfpBg

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZRLPTRZVUJXVXYRESEDAOQ4TPA Cedric

      Any public dsicourse regarding religion would most probably have the ending of a stalemate, religion is dogma and any argument against it would surely not hold water in a religious arena! bottom line, the catholic church in the Philippines is milking the occasion right to the last drop! If they are really concerned about the welfare and safety of the ‘herd’ then they should stop this lunacy! this is absolute madness!!!

      • RomyLitz

        Agree 101%. But this is the method of litmus test how gullible the Filipinos that even the elites are tempted to do. Its the century old litmus test among the Damados.

    • GKLer

      browndarwinian,

      this is evolution 101:  single atom iron based life forms evolved into my Honda after zillions of years, all on their own.

      darwin never saw what a REAL woman looked liked, just check out Ms. Lin Ketong’s pictures online, absolutely no resemblance to an ape.

      Ps.  Check out the coelecanth fish – 400 million year old fossil found alive in 1931, unevolved with no change.  It is older than humans, yet it cannot even talk or build submarines.  Evolution is a lie.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_RHTZHLL3EW4CLYC3SQSHU47VP4 Isagani

    HYSTERIA, something about the way our brains are wired. It explains:
    naked shinto processions, this Quiapo phenomenon, “speaking in
    tongues”, mob rule, lynchings, etc. There is a “feel good”
    effect after.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YVVBMGZ43HP4GTMUE35CTRJD4Y Junia

    I wonder when the best of the Roman Catholic minds give their reflection about this kind of practice in the Philippines. May we hear from the vanguards of the Catholic universities and institution of higher learning, can the Jesuits, the La Salle Brothers, the Dominicans say something….how about Archbishop Luis Antonio Tagle…we have a range of practices of Catholic devotion from the literal crucifixion every Good Friday and this Nazarene devotion among others…what is our guide as 21st century faithful? Can PDI get their views as well, if ever they are honest and courageous enough to speak out their hearts and minds.

    • mal0c

      why couldn’t we give condoms during the nazarene celebration?

    • RomyLitz

      These priests liked it. No way you can stop them. Idolatry is inseparable in their teaching and firgot about Exodus 20.

  • mchang1978

    To JUNIA: You may read Fr Benigno Beltran’s “Christology of the Inarticulate” which was his doctoral dissertation at the Gregoriana in Rome. I have yet to read an indepth scholarly treatise on this semi-pagan devotion. Our Filipino version of christianity has to be purified from these elements: Nazareno, Santo Nino, Crucifixion, Marian cult, El Shaddai etc. There is a discrepancy between our scholarly theology (mostly imported from Europe) and our concrete praxis of religiosity. Most civilized catholic countries would scoff at our primitive catholicism. You can be sure that when the Philippines reaches the status of a first world country, all these primitive practices will vanish into thin air.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YVVBMGZ43HP4GTMUE35CTRJD4Y Junia

      Thanks a lot for the information. I will search for this particular dissertation. 

  • anu12345

    I resent people belonging to a religion who criticize others’ practice. They are basically saying theirs are the right ones, the others are crap. Not cool. Worse, they forget the fact that all of them believe in something that absolutely no one can prove that it exists. Better for you all to live in mutual harmony and the world will be more peaceful.

  • Hfxwst

    Given that our dear Bishops have their staff issue press releases about things which are of no business of theirs;  on this issue they appear irresponsible by their silence and stupid for their participation.   This is no longer a Christian festival,  it is a pagan festival – and shame on the Bishops for allowing it to become such, and allowing it to continue.  We expect better of the Philippine Catholic Church, and these Bishops are not capable of providing it.

    If there are injuries or even deaths,  the blood is directly on the hands of the Philippine Catholic Church.

  • RomyLitz

    Its a century old form of idolatry. Its not in the Bible about the black nazarene. This is common in Spsin, Brazil and Mexico. To worship God is in the Spirit not outward like the Pharisees and the Sadduccees, John 4:24. This practice is purely madness and sinful idolatry. Remember, deaths in the procession is the same deaths occuring during fiestas and new years celebrations.

  • quirinomayer

    The first question is that does this ritual have anything to do with Christ, the ultimate teacher of morality and the savior of mankind from sin? The second is if it’s not just the wood but Christ  who is the cause of this devotion, how come the yearly rituals have no effect whatsoever in the morality of Filipinos? According to Christ, Christians are supposed to be the salt of the earth and nine million Black Nazarene devotees are much, much more than the moral salt this country needs. How come we do not feel the effects of the yearly ritual on the morality of the nation? Because it’s just the wood and not Christ that is being worshiped there.

  • Ommm

    Only in the Philippines would people crucify themselves and go hysterical over a black Jesus statue. At the same time blame nature for calamity after calamity…and at the same time ignore any thought that God is nature. 

  • Jon70

    The result of wrong teaching..

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_65XC5RQ2QFE6TDAOXUCTG2LQZ4 Ricky

      true

  • Hfxwst

    It is the mixing of religion with superstition – so common here and encouraged.  The enemy of religious extremism is education.  Time for a reformation here in the Philippines – and getting better educated and experienced Bishops.

    There are similar examples in some Islamic countries – looks exactly the same as the Philippines, only the symbols are different.

  • virgoyap

    As priests, bishops and as members of the Catholic heirarchy is this happening a cause for celebration? Is it appropriate to thank God because of this? As a catholic myself, I’m still asking how do I feel about it? I still have a lot of question in my heart and in my mind. It remains a mystery to me.

    • RomyLitz

      If Moses have to come down from the heavens, these religious leaders or fence sitters of this idolatry rites will be burned or buried alive first.

  • romeo solina

    My one memorable experience was way back during WWII when I lived in Evangelista St just near the corner of Raon. The head of the procession was quite placid and solemn, but when the Black Nazarene was about to reach our place, the surging crowd and sound must have been like that of an incoming tsunami. The closed massive doors of the stores and accessorias along the street rattled menacingly. The quake of the passage alarmed us as we, children, watched from second floor windows.
    That was then – when only hundreds, naked to the waists, shouldered the image… I can imagine now when millions appear to be participating in the procession. I still keep wondering how Christianity in our country continue to encourage and preserve such pagan passion for icons (idols).

    • RomyLitz

      Moses, in the book of Exodus, burned and buried alive those who worshipped the golden calf. Those children who did not participate in the golden calf worshipping were even told to kill their parents, uncles or relatives who joined the golden calf worships.

  • tristanism

    I am not a fan of the ritual, but thank you for that beautiful article.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PNTIGXL3JZVKOJDRXXDYGGBUUY Jerry

    Trying to touch the wood in the middle of mammoth procession to the detriment of getting trampled and killed while the rest of the year it’s there by itself inside the church free for whomsoever would touch its feet. Silly.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_65XC5RQ2QFE6TDAOXUCTG2LQZ4 Ricky

    Read Exodus 20.
    Portrait of a nation plague by the 10 of Exodus

  • Crispin Abarientos

    what a waste of time

    • RomyLitz

      Agree one thousand one per cent!

  • Crispin Abarientos

    white nazarene, pink nazarene, blue nazarene. you can pretty much create anything from your imagination, and fickle-minded people will start praying on it and give away their hard-earned money with a smile.

    • RomyLitz

      Thats how gullible a person becomes when that person is expecting a miracle or winning a lottery to happen. Any priest or preacher can exploit this religious trading disguised as tradition or a leap of faith.

  • tadasolo

    This ritual weather you agree on it or not surely reflects the portrait of the nation.

  • Manuel_II

    I Pity the people who has been brain wash by the Roman Catholic Church.

    This is not Christianity this is Paganism and Idolatry.

  • Armi_DXB

    i tried joining the parade twice in the 90′s to witness and experience the crowd, one thing i will not forget is i can smell some “Chico” around. and it was “really fun!”.

  • Cruxofthematter

    There had been many great black leaders, Obama is not one of them. And the Nazarene was not black. No one can say that is how he would look. So why would an image be miraculous? It is the pagan rumor that has been accepted by a pagan nation.

    Behold, if only we realize the words of John 4:24 and see the futility of idolatry. In fact, idolatry on a national scale is courting the wrath of the Almighty who sent His Son to redeem us from such wrath. It is ironic how the Romans have blinded us for 300 years and yet its presence is still here.

  • arao_liwanag

    THIS DEMONSTRATE THAT FILIPINOS ARE BLIND FOLLOWERS AND THEY WORSHIP AND VENERATE IN THE WORDS OF CONSTANTINO, WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING. AND IF MY ADD, THOUGH MY ROOT IS FILIPINO, THIS IS THE HEIGHT OF STUPIDITY. DISGUSTING!!! 

  • ahabeek

    again, i have to say this, read the Bible, it will enlighten your mind about this belief of million people… ” SINO BA ANG DAPAT SAMBAHIN, ANG NILALANG NG TAO, O ANG LUMALANG SA TAO?” this is only a one day festivity.. sana nman duon sa mga deboto, hindi lamang sa araw na ito maging mabuti  but all throughout.. if you have vices like smoking, drinking wine, play cards.. refrain from doing so if you really devoted yourself to the BLACK NAZARENE as a symbol our LORD JESUS CHRIST.

  • rickytell

    The Roman Catholic Church should stop this madness..this is just a piece of wood carved into a supposedly image  of Christ. This is just product of a woodcarver..made by hand.not much different from your wooden chair..this is idolatry..and it is against the law of God..Take Israel’s example, you cannot find idols where Christianity came from..in the Holy Land..why do we believe this piece of wood?.The Catholic Church is leading us to Hell…Read the Bible only and you shall know the truth and the truth shall set us free…Only the Bible…not Vatican 2..not tradition…I am wondering why the RC priests as so blind to the truth..common sense will tell them..this is non sense.

  • rickytell

    We are under curse because of this..

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_MR6DYG55ADTILVDMH7GOA6KWSU gregory

    God hates Idolatry read the following teachings from the Bible   
    Lev 26:1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God. 
    The second commandment is even worse as they is a curse attached to it,those who practiced idolatry will be cursed unto the 3rd and 4th generation
    Exo 20:4  Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Exo 20:5  Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZWTTKJTI57YO7TZBJC66GA2OLU dennis

    Sana po eh ipagpaumanhin nyo at ng nakararami but meron po akong magandang katanungan para sa nakararami at para na rin po sa sarili ko na may paniniwala at takot sa Panginoong Diyos na lumikha sa akin.Ang katanungan ko po eh “Why do we celebrate feast of Black Nazarene every January 9?”…WHY?

    1)Is it because of tradition?
    2) Is it because of Quiapo Day or Fiesta?
    3) Or is it because someone started it that IT MUST be on January 9?

    Let me explain something,As a Catholic Nation,we are following a Gregorian Calendar that celebrates the same celebration and practicing Christian beliefs on different days as the whole world of Christian celebrating it.Our country differs from other nation when it comes to “Dedication and Devotion” isn´t it? For me,as i am thinking about it,seems very awkward to celebrate it on January 9…Why? Look!…According to the Calendar we are following,we are celebrating the Birth of Jesus on December 25,isn´t it?….Regardless of New Year,January 6 was the “Three(3) Kings” on which these 3 Kings visit or reaches Jesus of Nazareth in Bethlehem?…Then,here comes the “Feast of Santo Nino”(Jesus as a Child)…Then,after two or three months,we celebrate “Lent Season”..let me say around last week of March until somewhere in April di ba?

    TANONG:

     ”How appropriate is to celebrate Jesus carrying a Cross (Black Nazarene) between “3 Kings(January 6) and Feast of Santo Nino(Jesus as a Child) January 15 or 16?”

    This is not to hurt everyone´s belief coz i am also a Christian.But kung belief ko ang susundin ko or kung ang magiging dikta ng paniniwala ko,mas appropriate para sa akin if we celebrate it on “Palm Sunday”…or kung History naman ng Nazareno ang susundin natin,May 31 was the most appropriate coz that was the official recorded date according to History when it first arrived in our country? Di po ba? May 31 was appropriate coz para sa akin,it will be more powerful on that date as a Thanksgiving to Jesus “Carrying a Cross”…In some other ways,we didn´t BRAKE THE CONTINUITY of celebration of Black Nazarene coz it´s after a “Holy Week”?

    Maybe i´m also a very superstitious person who has strong belief to God in Heaven but i have a feeling about “Not to start our country every year with something that carries a cross” Whereas,May 31 devides the “Summer and Rainy season” in our country and will carry ourselves asking petitions not only for each protection but a protection for our Nation for the coming of Rainy season…..THINK ABOUT IT?….I am thinking about the reason about “Why the “BLACK NAZARENE” arrived on that date?

    • ahabeek

      I think about the dates you mentioned, it did not happen in the same year, maybe after 10 years, 15, 20, 30….but it only coincide in the same month…and also the nativity of Jesus Christ is not December 25 according to many scholars..

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZWTTKJTI57YO7TZBJC66GA2OLU dennis

        Regardless of Years,before Christ was born,it was already known to the people that (1)one Day is 24hrs di ba? So,let me say according to historians or sabihin na natin na nakasulat sa Bibliya na may isang anak ng Diyos na isisilang at magiging tagapagligtas ng lahat,which was noted as it is the message of God to 3 Kings,sent by an Angel.That was happened before Christ was born!…Let us presumed that 3Kings already started to walk and look where it is?(The place called Bethlehem) before Christ was born…Now,from the date,December 25 until January 6 is 13 Days! Let us disregard a Year that divide between an Old and New Year(Dec 31 and Jan.1) which is a Gregorian Calendar na sinusunod natin….Now,gaya ng nasabi ko,(1) one Day is 24hrs…so,walking to reach that place Bethlehem by a date of Jan.6 is possible! And i can conclude that it is probably takes almost a month for 3 Kings to reach that place!…The question is “How long is the distance of 3 Kings from the place they start until they reach Jan 6,if according to Historians that they were already recieved message from God that his son (Jesus) will be born?…If we use our imaginary thinking,Does the distance similar if we walk from Appari to the end part of Bicol that will takes a month to reach? This is just a comparison. Besides,during that time,it was only on this “Middle East” concentrate the human civilization story,but in fact,there were already existing other civilization in some other areas?

      • ShawnHunk

        goggle for the translation of talmud of Jmmanuel the answer to your questions are all there.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZWTTKJTI57YO7TZBJC66GA2OLU dennis

    I´m not against the celebration of Nazarene as long as we strengthen our belief in God.Concern lang po ako sa date?

  • browndarwinian

    ‘What we have here, and picked from no mean source, is a distillation of precisely what is twisted and immoral in the faith mentality. Its essential fanaticism, its consideration of the human being as raw material. And its fantasy of purity.

    Once you assume a creator and a plan, it makes us objects, in a cruel experiment, whereby we are created sick, and commanded to be well. I’ll repeat that. Created sick, and then ordered to be well.

    And over us, to supervise this, is installed a celestial dictatorship, a kind of divine North Korea. Exigent, I would say, more than exigent greedy for, uncritical praise, from dawn until dusk. And swift to punish the original sins with which it so tenderly gifted us in the very first place. An eternal, unalterable, judge jury and executioner, against whom there could be, no appeal. And who wasn’t finished with you, even when you died.

    However! Let no one say there’s no cure, salvation is offered, redemption, indeed, is promised, at the low price, of the surrender of your critical faculties.

    Religion, it might be said, must be said, would have to admit, makes extraordinary claims, but though I would maintain that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, rather daringly provides not even ordinary evidence for its extraordinary supernatural claims. To insist that we are created and not evolved, in the face of all the evidence.

    Religion forces nice people to do unkind things, and also makes intelligent people say stupid things.

    Handed a small baby for the first time, is it your first reaction to think, “beautiful, almost perfect. Now please hand me the sharp stone for its genitalia, that I may do the work of the Lord”? No.

    As the great physicist Steven Weinberg has aptly put it, in the ordinary moral universe, the good will do the best they can, the worst will do the worst they can, but if you want to make good people do wicked things, you’ll need religion.

    Religion, and in fact any form of faith, –because it is a surrender of reason, a surrender of reason in favor of faith is a fantastic force multiplier.

    A tremendous intensifier, of all things that are in fact divisive rather than inclusive. That’s why its history is so stained with blood. Not just of crimes against humanity, crimes against womanhood, crimes against reason and science, attacks upon medicine and enlightenment, all these appalling things.

    There is no conceivable way, that by calling on the supernatural, you will achieve anything like your objective of a common humanism which is, I think you’re quite right to say, our only chance of — I won’t call it salvation, thank you.’

    - Christopher Hitchens

    watch?v=Gkv6zw4gnKU

    • GKLer

      Evidence of a GLOBAL FLOOD of biblical proportions:

      300 cultures have stories of a massive flood wiping out all life on earth.
      Science needs to disprove them all before making a claim.
      Evolutionists and Atheists never looked at the evidence:

      1. Therefore:  we need to look for layers of mud/sand/deposits, evidence for massive and rapid erosion by water, significant salinity changes, layers of many dead (fossil/bones/remains) creatures, plants, trees etc…Here:

      2. In the Gulf of Mexico, sample cores are numerous (due to oil and oceanographic exploration).  Each inch of core repesent 1000 years.  At some point in the core sample, it will show a MASSIVE change in salinity by 10%!!! (due to fresh water rushing into the gulf).

      3. In the Black Sea, core samples taken will show that it used to be smaller.  You will find a uniform sedimentary layer that could only have been deposited from a flood.  In that layer you will find saltwater marine fossils.  The Black Sea used to be a fresh water lake, today it is brackish.  A uniform layer could not have been formed over a long period of time, it can only be formed with a massive pouring in of water (think 3,000,000 gallons per second).

      4. In the Grand Canyon which has 2 billion years of geological history would cover the flood in its layers.  It is 800m above sea level!!  You will find marine fossils in the Redwall layer (lime sand) deposited in a very rapid devastating manner.

      5. You will find evidence of massive kills across the globe:  in Zucheng, China, 7000+ fossils were found in a 300 meter pit.  In Nova Scotia you will find a forrest of fossilized upright trees 20-40ft long with missing roots at the 2500ft strata.  In Dijon-Lyons there is a cave of bones of lots of animals – bears, lions, deer, horses, wolves, ox.  There is no evidence they were “hunted” or “eaten”.  Explanation: rising waters caused them to group together, and die together.  Globally you will not find fossils in the right strata order, somehow the strata has been altered by several meters.

      6. The Swiss Alps, Sierras, Himalayas – highest peaks on earth – we find fossilized shellfish and marine fossils. 

      7. Rock layers (deposited sediment) when traced, cover entire continents and vast areas.  The Redwall and Tapeats layer of the Grand Canyon is traceable across North America to Europe.  The Coconino layer has about 10000cu-miles of sand deposited by water rapidly, rather than slowly – this sand is traceable from southern USA to Canada.  Chalk layer of UK is traceable up to the Middle East.

      8. There is evidence of rapid massive erosion between rock layers, and evidence of NO erosion at all.  So what could cause rapid massive erosion?  - Lots of water.

      9. Rock layers do not bend due to hardness and brittleness, but in the Grand Canyon, you will find evidence it was wet and caused the Tapeats layer to bend, fold before it dried. Think wave-like patterns – you can look at the pictures somewhere.

      10. Evolutionists claim slow and gradual sand deposits. Geologists (real scientists) will not agree.

      11. Mt. St. Helens – they found a 1/10 version of the Grand Canyon 200 ft deep showing the similar evidence of rapid and massive erosion from WATER.

      12. Since I love whales, that’s right, they found an 80ft whale fossil, vertically positioned!! in a diatomaceous rock quarry (ref: Dicalite Grefco).  Fossilize whales have also been found 500 ft above sea level in Canada, USA.

      13. Next, ask why are there mass kills of FROZEN IN ICE(and in very good condition) mammoths in large numbers in Russia, Alaska, Europe.  If someone was looking for a reason why the “ice age” happened, the flood provides two things to fit: snow and lower temperatures from all the water. I mean where else could you possibly get enough water to make sheets of ice 2 miles thick?? PS. don’t bother talking to me about “several” ice ages.

      14. Next, people – we all know they left cities that seem way to advanced for their time frame, and they “disappeared”, mostly these cities have to be excavated, because of all the layers of sediments on them. When I say advanced, I am also talking about ancient maps (ref: Piri Reis) that could only have been drawn from way above the earth and are more accurate than recent maps dating 11-17th century.There are monuments – many are underwater today, we all know people don’t build them underwater.

      15. Anyway, on people, something this grand would have to be told to their children’s children so 300 cultures have stories of a massive flood. 300 — too many accounts, all of which a REAL SCIENTIST would HAVE TO DISPROVE before making a claim it never happened.

      16. Evidence is all around the earth, some people just don’t look for it or turn a blind eye to it. Instead, they make a lazy statement without looking at evidence on hand: “bible daw is fantasy”.

      17. That’s right, EVOLUTIONISTS ARE NOT TRUE SCIENTISTS, they are mostly lazy common people, giving REAL HARDWORKING scientists a bad name!!! Oh and once again, Darwin was a fraud – a fake.

      • ShawnHunk

        Truly its the sign of times goggle the2012scenario more promising info

  • Lorainne Heart

    “Cursed is the man who carves an image or casts an idol–a thing detestable to the LORD, the work of the craftsman’s hands–and sets it up in secret.” Then all the people shall say “Amen!.” – Deuteronomy 27:15

  • Lorainne Heart

    Read and understand the Bible (if you have one.) Being a Christian is NOT about following a set of traditions which are made by men but rather its about following Jesus Christ, surrendering your life to Him and making him Lord over your life.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZWTTKJTI57YO7TZBJC66GA2OLU dennis

    “Happy are those people who have talent to DRAW(an Artist or Sculpturist) and WRITE (a Bible or a Quran) given by God” Because without them,we cannot interpret and communicate better with our Lord,the way we believe it how look it is and how his words being delivered to us!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZWTTKJTI57YO7TZBJC66GA2OLU dennis

    No matter how we discuss things here in a Biblical way,but STILL,The one who wrote this things and put it in one book called “Bible” was being made by a person who are God given talent to relay it to us.

  • Lorainne Heart

    Religion says “DO”: Jesus Christ says “DONE”

  • ahabeek

    THE LORD GOD WISHES TO INTRODUCE HIMSELF THE WAY HE IS, NOT THE WAY WE MAKE HIM…

  • ShawnHunk

    Exodus 20:1-10

    ESV / 66 helpful votes

    And God spoke all these words, saying, “I am the Lord
    your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of
    slavery. “You shall have no other gods before me. “You shall not make
    for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in
    heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water
    under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the
    Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the
    iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth
    generation of those who hate me, …

  • ShawnHunk

    Deuteronomy 7:25–You shall burn the carved images of their gods with fire; you shall not
    covet the silver or gold that is on them, nor take it for
    yourselves, lest you be snared by it; for it is an abomination to the
    LORD your God.

     

  • ShawnHunk

    The  church have deceive the people almost two thousand years… Please gogle the translation of Talmud of Jmmanuel and know the truth.

  • Oscar Lei

    Scientists, evolutionists, or atheists are not denying there was global flooding thousands of years ago. In fact all those evidences presented by GKLer are results of scientific explorations. The flood is very likely caused by the end of the Ice Age. When the enormous amount of ice melted, every coastal regions of the Earth were inundated. It is quite possible that stories of great flood in various cultures came as a direct result of this event. This natural event has nothing to do with invisible being punishing “his creation”. 

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZWTTKJTI57YO7TZBJC66GA2OLU dennis

      As you have mentioned Sir,It was clear that it is the “End of Ice Age” BUT NOT End of Human Civilization! That is how i interpreted you….Of course,those who were affected will die but there is no “Total wipe out of Human Civilization.

    • GKLer

      Oscar Lei:

      You said Flood caused by end of Ice Age.  It is likely the other way around.  Flood most likely caused the Ice Age.  Too much water coming in would cool down the planet immediately.  How else can you find mammoths in ice with food still in their mouths? (search for it)  They were still eating when the flood came and later froze in the water with all that ice.

      Where else do you get water for the ice, ice that is 2 miles thick in some places even today?  As to where the water came from, refer to the 300+ cultural texts, and add to that – how the earth/solar system was probably formed. Lastly, you cannot have ice without the water first.

      I disagree with you on “Bible is myth”.  Myths do not result in verifiable artifacts. If the Bible were a myth, the remnants of Solomon’s Temple would not be in Israel today for you to touch.  

      If you think Jesus was created, why then is he recorded in the Talmud? (ie. Sanhedrin 43a – “eve of Passover, Yeshua was hanged…etc..” It also refers to 5 disciples of Jesus. It states how old he was when he died, it states the Romans got involved.)

      The Sanhedrin executed Jesus, why would they bother to document a myth?  That’s like saying the CIA is documenting myths rather than terrorists.

      You have Flavius Josephus –  a member of the Pharisees and a court historian to Emperor Vespasian, he made references to Pilate, Jesus, James – brother of Jesus. Now why would he pass all of that as “myth” if he was a historian to an emperor? Why would he risk the ire of the emperor on passing off incorrect historical accounts?

      Is Pilate a myth too?  What then is the -artifact- “Pilate’s Stone”? 

      Flavius recorded Caiphas too, is he a myth?  Why don’t you check the Ossuary of Caiphas – another artifact – coins inside dated to around 42AD. 

      The The Ossuary of James -artifact- is unique in the sense it states: James – Son of Joseph, Brother of Jesus.

      How about Nebuchadnezzer of Baylon and Cyrus the Persian and Herod the Great? These guys are mentioned a lot in the Bible, yet you think its not historical?

      • tamumd

        GKLer…that last glacial period was between 110,000 to 10,000 years ago (Paleolithic and Mesolithic periods). The biblical age of the earth is only 6,000, so that doesn’t make any sense. Current available geological/archeological evidence do not show it was preceded by a flood of deluvian proportions.

        Regarding Josephus Flavius and his writings…there’s no concensus out there as to whether his mention of Jesus “the Christ” was his own wording or just an interpolation of early Christian copier of his book. You can read wikipedia entry on “Josephus on Jesus”

        Finally the authenticity of the Ossuary of James – is still being contested and in fact is in a court battle in Israel. This is because the owner of the ossuary Oded Golan – is being charged with 44 counts of forgery, fraud and deception. You can read wikipedia on James Ossuary and Robert Eisenman’s article in Huffington Post about it.

        Finally by inserting snippets of history to a story book..doesn’t mean all of it is true specially if the the one who wrote it had one sole purpose..and that is to gain legitimacy to his/her claim/s.

      • GKLer

        tamumd:

        110,000 to 10,000  years ago is likely incorrect ie. I question its correctness.
        I believe conventional thinking is way off. Dinosaurs (not chosen to be saved by God) may have been walking with man up to the time of the Flood (they are referred to as “behemoths or leviathans in the Bible. The Bible also mentions Giants and the Nephilim). It is the only way to make any sense of it. That is my opinion.

        For facts, refer to my earlier post (the one that is numbered 1-17).   The strata has been altered afterall.

        I doubt you will see “concensus” anytime soon.  One should just take a side and judge the facts on hand.  There is no denying that Jesus (Yeshua) existed and is no myth. 
        1. You cannot even have 10,000 followers lasting 100 years if you are a mere myth.  That’s why today, you even have Rizalistas. 
        2. Logistically improbable for people to follow a myth…
        3. One should really ask why the enemies of Jesus bothered to document him?
        4. It is understandable for followers to produce documentation, but not enemies (such as the Sanhedrin, Pharasees like Flavius).
        5. If Jesus is myth, one should also ask, how a bunch of farmers, fishermen could pull off such a stunt?
        6. Imagine how our own present day low-level-educated farmer, fishermen, squatters could even do it. Not possible.
        7. They would have to perform healing miracles, and even today, that is really hard to come by.
        8. Then ask, even if they could pull it off, why bother? what’s wrong with the status quo?
        9. And almost all of Jesus’ disciples were executed, why would they want that knowing that is their probable end if they planned a myth soooo very well with their level of education?
        10. Finally, Ency. Brittanica and Reader’s Digest list Jesus as Fact. Even Einstein believed Jesus existed (time magazine: time dot com).

      • tamumd

        Question it’s correctness? That’s what science books say!!! And that’s being taught in schools! OK…don’t make me laugh!!! Seeing fossils of seashells and fish in the Swiss Alps doesn’t prove they were washed up there by a flood. Wow, i’m floored…I wonder if you’ve taken elementary Earth Science in High School? Or… these are just purely conjecture on your part? Have you even heard of plate tectonics? That’s the earth crust continually heaving and pushing itself up to form new land masses or mountains. Even today you still notice that in the form of earthquakes and tsunamis! The Swiss Alps believe it or not used to be part of a shallow tropical sea created by this very  process, hence you see seashealls and fish fossils up there. If they were washed up by some floods there..remember these are sea creatures and not pieces of logs or leaves that they would float, based on your theory, they should be not be found there at all because should be at the bottom of the ocean.

      • GKLer

        tamumd:

        Science books?  Up until about 2 years ago, science believed the Moon has no water.  That’s what has been taught in schools for ages. 

        Last year they found water on the Moon.

        I can continue with more examples, but I think you get the point now.

        Plate tectonic THEORY doesn’t account for everything. Calculate movement upwards, versus age of the earth, versus age of the fossilized creatures (like whales at 500ft above sea level), and that won’t be the correct answer. Your second explanation (tsunamis) with the help of the Flood would get them up there faster and in the correct time frame….but not the snail-slow Plate tectonics Theory. Once again, refer to my earlier post (1..17) for the rest.

      • tamumd

        Well that’s what’s good about science..it changes based on available evidence! Not just some preposterous story book which makes extraordinary claims because it is supposed to be the word of god therefore cannot be changed! In this day and age..only the gullible would blindly believe what it claims!!! Hahahaha..and finding water in the moon last year was NOT definitely because the bible predicted so..or even described it. It was found because of science my friend independent of divine intervention! Mind you! lol

      • GKLer

        tamumd

        Story book?  You mean historical and prophetic book (2000 out of 2500 prophecies has come true) supported with thousands of archaelogical artifacts and sites and various babylonian/egyptian/persian/jewish/etc documents? 

        Anyway I defer to Jin2012′s post post below on proof of God based on prophecy.
        I suggest reading it.

        Oh, here’s the problem with science, yesterday you believed something was “true”, today it is not so.  Tomorrow, something else you believed in strongly today will be wrong as well.  So, that means, you were never right at all anytime in history.

        Oh and science is killing us today in case you didn’t know. It’s in the food you just ate, the air, the water, even the toys…and the weapons of mass destruction… it’s not God killing us – it’s your “good” and forever changing…inconsistent science. So try laughing at that now.

      • tamumd

        No i mean fantasy, story book..just like The Da Vinci Code!!!. Supposedly replete with historical bases but a total flat out fabrication of epic proportions!

        If science is NEVER right all the time..there would be no advances in medicine today. We would never have known about prions and viruses and fungi and bacteria and DNA and it’s mutations…..we would never been able to treat them if science were NEVER right at all times! Remember the church used to think these are punishment from god. Therefore we deserved them! We would have never sent anyone to space or the moon! We would not have improved food production without progress in agriculture and genetic engineering. If science were NEVER right at all time..we never have a discussion right here right now…considering our temporal and spatial differences! So there you go….science after all is behind all these developments! Religion on the otherhand…was for a long time a detriment and obstacle to the scientific progress even to this very day!

      • jin2012

        While “science” thought the earth was on top of a giant turtle (like a sci-fi fantasy),

        Isaiah 40:22 (written in ~700BC)
        He sits enthroned above the CIRCLE of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

      • tamumd

        lol..are you kidding me? Is this the best evidence you have that the bible knows astrophysics and earth science? Funny you highlighted CIRCLE….if you studied geometry circle is NOT a sphere!!! And look at how naive the bible describes the “heavens” like a canopy/tent. I dunno about you but any 21st century educated person knows that there’s no piece of cloth/tarp up there in the sky..it’s a vast empty space! The illiterate author of the bible with their limited grasp of the heavenly bodies thought there was a canopy up there forming the heavens! lol

      • jin2012

        Actually its an oblate spheroid, not a sphere.  and if you want to talk about astrophysics, you should know that the earth’s shape isn’t an absolute constant either.
        The bible has no word for computers, internet, etc.  But then neither would anyone in the 21st century know what Noah’s “Gopher wood” really is.  Does that make you illiterate since you don’t know what it is?Look up analogy and metaphor, it’s a concept available in the 21st century and taught in grade 4 and used in ancient writings/poetry as far back as in this case 700BC.

      • tamumd

        So now..you’re trying to weasle out of your biblical CIRCLE thing!!! I agree it’s not a perfect sphere..but the point is your bible even miss the fact that the earth does not have a flat geometry is already wrong! And why would any non-religious fanatic even care what the bible says! Only you… who believes on it literally is ready to defend it’s claims even if it doesn’t make any sense!!! And if you think these are just analogy and metaphors..why would you even present that as evidence? That’s absurd!!!

      • jin2012

        The Bible does not reveal ALL to us, neither do I make claim that it does.
        Sometimes, the knowledge in it will become available only at the right time.hence, the reason you think it doesn’t make sense. Refer to the 2 below:

        Deuteronomy 29:29
        “The secret things belong to the Yahweh our God, but the things revealed belong to
        us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law.”

        Daniel 12:4
        “But you, Daniel, close up and seal the words of the scroll until the TIME OF THE END. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.”

        Since you feel it doesn’t make sense, I leave you with this:

        Proverbs 14:29
        “A patient man has great understanding, but a quick-tempered man displays folly.”

      • tamumd

        Hahaha..i hope it’s clear to you by now that i don’t believe in anything written in that book! So there’s no point of quoting every verse from there! The fact what we’ve been arguing it’s authencity and veracity for a while now is a moot point to even cite anything from there as a shred of evidence! So why don’t you just go to bed now!!! :-)

      • jin2012

        I refer you to my earlier post below…the one that states proof of God is in Prophecy, that’s the evidence.  If prophecy comes true (and it has about 2000 times), then it’s authentic, it’s evidence of it’s authenticity. That’s what makes the Bible unique, it’s a prophetic book. It was written down before it came true, so you will know it as Truth when it is fulfilled.

        It’s that simple.  

        Science isn’t even required to prove God. Read that.

      • jin2012

        Proof of God is in prophecy:

        Isaiah – oldest copy mankind has is dated 300-120 years before Christ was born.

        Here are some of those prophecies:

        “Isaiah 9:6-7 (Born as a human male)
        Isaiah 7:14 (Born of a virgin)
        Isaiah 37:31 (from the House of Judah)
        Isaiah 11:1-5,10 (From the root and stump of Jesse)
        Isaiah 16:5 (from the House of David)
        Isaiah 9:1-2 (from Nazareth of Galilee)
        Isaiah 49:6, 42:1-6 (mission to include the Gentiles)
        Isaiah 29:18, 35:5-6 (ministry to include miraculous healings)
        Isaiah 61:1-2 (ministry would deliver spiritual captives)
        Isaiah 53:3 (despised and rejected by men)
        Isaiah 49:7 (hated without cause)”

        What are the odds of ALL those becoming true in one man at the right time and place when Isaiah was written way before Christ was born?

        Also, myths do not prophesy. Jesus prophesied the destruction of the Jewish temple (by the Romans) shortly before he was executed. Refer to Matthew 24. This became fulfilled in 70AD (well within the “this generation will witness this” time frame, and ancient historians Flavius and Tacitus wrote about it.

        Today, there are prophecies coming true which you are not even aware of. The Israelites lost control over their land around 2500 years ago. You should ask yourself why in 1948 Israel became a nation again, and in 1967 won The Six Day War, getting more territory and reuniting East and West Jerusalem despite being invaded by 3 countries..

        Despite having no country for thousands of years since 607BC, punished by God for disobedience, ejected from their Promised Land, the Jews retained their identity and wasn’t absorbed into the culture of other nations until 1948. Since then peace in the Middle East was always uncertain, and many nations have gotten involved. Compare that with:

        Disobedience led to scattering of the Jews, started in ~607BC, completed in 70AD:
        Deuteronomy 28:64 
        ‘Then the LORD will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other.’ 

        Jews scattered brought back together again, in 1948, after ~2500 years ousted from the land.
        Jeremiah 16:14-16 and 23:3
        “I myself will gather the remnant of my flock out of all the countries where I have driven them and will bring them back to their pasture, where they will be fruitful and increase in number.

        God defends Israel from 3 other countries in 1967 during the Six Day War:
        Zech 12:8
        On that day the LORD will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the Angel of the LORD going before them.

        During the End Times, Israel will cause peace problems for many nations as seen today:
        Zech 12:2-3
        Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about… And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces.

        Those are just a few of many.

      • tamumd

        OK to me these are just akin to horoscope predictions..so general and not very specific! lol. The bible didn’t say that in 1948 the nation of Israel will be reestablished! I guess you could thank Theodor Herzl for that and not god!!! It’s interesting that the predictions in Isaiah is used by christians to foretold the birth of christ..yet the Jews to whom this book is addressed is still expecting the messiah! How ironic!!! To this very day..there are alot of nut job, literal, tele-evanglist christians in the US who are pro-Israel and trying to influence US foreign policy in the middle east just so the bible prophecy would come true! So…. again it would the workings of human beings trying to implement the script in that story book and not god him/herself!!! How convinient for you to say that god existence is beyond scientific scrutiny. Of course that is the case because he’s non-existent! How come he’s making it hard for his chosen people to find peace in their own land? And how come his chosen people don’t even believe in christ? Hmmm I wonder why?! Is that because you also believe that the “end time ” is near? When is that gonna happen? lol..December 2012? :-)

      • rickytell

        It appears you are an atheist and do not believe the existence of God…do you also believe that the shoes you are in just came out of its own without a creator?…it just existed and designed itself to fit your feet? Do you believe that this earth just came out itself  or so called evolution  by itself? No creator? Despite its huge weight..it is floating in space by itself..NO CREATOR? use your common sense..at least use your brain

      • tamumd

        Hahaha..just because someone made my inanimate shoe doesn’t mean that you can use that analogy and extend that to nature and the universe! You’re comparing apples and oranges! Have you heard of gravity? It’s floating in the space because of the gravitational pull from other planets and from our moon in our solar system. And yes I believe in evolution NOT in any bearded deity hiding behind the clouds! Who suppose to know your every thought and actions! And if you claim to have the monopoly to common sense..just ruminate on that idea for a while! Doesn’t it sound childish and magical to you? Just like a 4 year old would believe in a tooth fairy or the story of the dragon and the unicorn!

      • rickytell

        Good thing you believe you are a product of evolution..that’s why your logic is still primitive and comparable to a buffoon..Science can explain how gravity works but cannot explain who caused or created it,Gravity keeps us in precise safe distance from the Sun and other planets ..this happens by evolution?or by chance.? it’s a no brainer. Wake up to reality..you are not a product of evolution or by anything..Somebody created you..the same way someone created the shoes you are wearing. It did not exist by accident. Accept that logic and you will be fine. Does your PC that you are using now a  product of evolution.? somebody must have created it. Got the point?

      • tamumd

        Just to point out to you..you’re now resorting to ad hominems! That’s unchristian by the way!!!Again you keep using analogies of inanimate objects..this time a PC which obviously is man-made. Why do you have to attribute the wonders of nature and the universe to a creator? Where is this creator now and what does he/she/it looks like? If he is omnicient, omnipresent, all-knowing..how come he screwed up on alot of his creations? How come he cannot prevent disasters and human sufferings?

      • rickytell

        Haha..now you say I am  unchristian..look who’s talking..you are. You want inanimate object? your body is the best example. Now think hard (if you can) how you come about  into existence. The sperm of your father and the egg of your mother united and  transformed into you..is that by accident? Don’t you know we are  like God..we have the capacity to create things? because obviously we are sons of God..

        Edit
        Reply

      • tamumd

        It least I know that’s how most plants and animals come to be ..joining of gametes…and not because of some invisible deity!!! Base on your premise..other animals and plants are all gods or sons and daugthers of god since they can produce offsprings too! How absurd!!! How do you know we are like god? Again no one has even seen him/her/it! Even your bible says that!!! I am throwing those back at you since you’re the one who is supposed to be pious and following what your lord has commanded you to do! Seems like you’re not even practicing what you’re preaching! So it’s useless! And that’s what religious people mostly are..hypocrites!!!

      • rickytell

        Tamund..this article might help you open your eyes to the truth about the existence of God 

          THERE IS NO GODBy Jim Bishop There is no God. All the wonders around us are accidental.No Almighty hand made a thousand-billion stars. They made themselves.No power keeps them on their steady course. The earth spins itself to keep the oceans from falling off towards the sun.Infants teach themselves to cry when they are hungry or hurt. A small invented itself so that we could extract digitalis for sick hearts.The earth gave itself day and night, tilted itself so that we get seasons. Without magnetic poles, man would be unable to navigate the trackless oceans of water and air, but they just grew there.How about the sugar thermostat in the pancreas? It maintains a level of sugar in blood sufficient for energy.Without it, all of us would fall into coma and die. Why does snow sit on mountain-tops waiting for the warm spring sun to melt it at just the right time for young crops in the farm below to drink? A very beautiful accident! The human heart will beat for 70 to 80 years without faltering.How does it get sufficient rest between beats? A kidney will filter poison from the blood, and leave good thing alone. How does it know one from he other?Who gave the human tongue flexibility to form words, and brain to understand them but denied it to all other animals?Who showed a womb how to take the love of two persons and keep splitting tiny ovum until, in a time a baby would have the proper number of fingers, eyes, and ears and hair in the right places, and come into the world when it is strong enough to sustain life?There is no God?Reader’s Digest, December 1993

      • tamumd

        So…all these things included in this old article are just how nature/universe work. NO god made them do it that way! The human body that has very intricate functioning is the result of cumulative evolutionary changes that occured over millions of years, but it is in no way perfect just like what a perfect designer would do! Our eyes for example if designed..is a faulty one because the part where all the small nerve fibers in the retina gather to become the optic nerve results in a blind spot! So the designer screwed up…who ever he is! The males prostate gland if designed is also a screw up. Because he/she placed it around the portion of the urethra where the urine exits from the bladder..therefore as males ages…and most will have enlarged prostates…it will screw up their urination! Same is true with the female pelvis!!! Interestingly by the descriptons made in this article the whole natural world seems so lovely and poetic and everything is perfect!!! Did this designer of yours designed that lions eat gazzelles too..how cruel is he? Did he designed pitcher plants to entice feeding insects to land on it’s sticky but protein digesting buds? Did he design that the Onchocerca worms (causing river blindness) bore holes in the eyes of some unsuspecting, innocent kids living in the rivers banks in West Africa? How cruel is that kind of god? Did he design that cells in our bodies would turn cancerous all the time causing misery to alot of people, even alot of these people worship him and adore him? Is he a perfect designer who is also cruel? What kind of creator/designer is he? How come he failed to make our body produce essential amino acids and vitamin C? Now we have to get those from outside sources because he did not design our bodies to make them!!!By the way not all babies born have complete fingers and arms and legs and face and head and heart and abdominal organs!!! Who ever is he/she/it..screwed up big time!!! So therefore I don’t believe there was ever a designer for anything in this world and of our universe. Get over it!!!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZWTTKJTI57YO7TZBJC66GA2OLU dennis

    My only point here is “Why not having the Feast of Black Nazarene” on May 31 which was an official recorded time when Black Nazarene reach our country? At least,the symbol of Jesus carrying a Cross was more appropriate which is after Holy week(Lent Season) nandoon pa rin yung sinasabi nating “Flow of Continuity” and not between Jan.6 and Feast of Jesus as a young Child(Jan 15)?…The question of relevancy of Nazareno “in-between” that date puzzles me?….Wala namang mababago sa paniniwala kahit baguhin mo ang date eh?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_VP4FP6KLP3FWA42BWRTFF4IH5E Izqaia Pagan

     bakit di gawin 4 na beses mag fiesta upang mabawas bawasan ang dami ng Devoto na dumadalo sa araw ng annual na fiesta celebration upang sa ganoon di magsiksikan at maiwasan ang disgrasya ng mga devoto

  • Oscar Lei

    This one is for Dennis: First of all, the Bible is not history – it’s mythology. The  Christian nativity was actually based on an ancient solar myth found in many cultures pre-dating Christianity by thousands of years. The main difference is that in all the other stories, the sun god is accepted as allegorical, while the authors of the Gospel story try to turn this into history and create a character Jesus to take the place of the solar deity.

    Also, those 3 kings? They are actually Magi; ancient astrologers of Persian origin. This is not to say though that they were real either. The 3 were actually the 3 stars in the constellation Orion; namely Mintaka, Alnilam, and Alnitak. If you connect the 3 it will point to Sirius, the brightest star in the east, the so-called “Star of Bethlehem”. And if you go further down to the horizon, it points to the spot where the Sun will rise 3 days after Winter Solstice, or December 25.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZWTTKJTI57YO7TZBJC66GA2OLU dennis

      It seems to me that you are fond of reading Myths and some ancient civilization stories..but para sa akin,Tao lang ang gumawa nyan Sir.There is a “MISSING PROOF” that connects everything,ika nga….Parang “Holy Bible”…tao lang ang gumawa,but the missing link is to prove that”Does the Writer of all of this thing have a personal contact with God before?”…Yun ang tanong?…Gaya din ng mga taong may talent to DRAW(Artist or Sculptur maker)…..Bilang isang tao,magagawa mong basagin ang lahat na pinggan mo sa kusina mo BUT you cannot break  with your clear conscience a Statue of God which was created by an Artist….It is a matter of belief and our own conscience which may result to fear of the unknown that will probably happen in our future.

    • jin2012

      Oscar Lei,

      Proof of God is in prophecy:

      Isaiah – oldest copy mankind has is dated 300-120 years before Christ was born.

      Here are some of those prophecies:

      “Isaiah 9:6-7 (Born as a human male)
      Isaiah 7:14 (Born of a virgin)
      Isaiah 37:31 (from the House of Judah)
      Isaiah 11:1-5,10 (From the root and stump of Jesse)
      Isaiah 16:5 (from the House of David)
      Isaiah 9:1-2 (from Nazareth of Galilee)
      Isaiah 49:6, 42:1-6 (mission to include the Gentiles)
      Isaiah 29:18, 35:5-6 (ministry to include miraculous healings)
      Isaiah 61:1-2 (ministry would deliver spiritual captives)
      Isaiah 53:3 (despised and rejected by men)
      Isaiah 49:7 (hated without cause)”

      What are the odds of ALL those becoming true in one man at the right time and place when Isaiah was written way before Christ was born?

      Also, myths do not prophesy. Jesus prophesied the destruction of the Jewish temple (by the Romans) shortly before he was executed. Refer to Matthew 24. This became fulfilled in 70AD (well within the “this generation will witness this” time frame, and ancient historians Flavius and Tacitus wrote about it.

      Today, there are prophecies coming true which you are not even aware of. The Israelites lost control over their land around 2500 years ago. You should ask yourself why in 1948 Israel became a nation again, and in 1967 won The Six Day War, getting more territory and reuniting East and West Jerusalem despite being invaded by 3 countries..

      Despite having no country for thousands of years since 607BC, punished by God for disobedience, ejected from their Promised Land, the Jews retained their identity and wasn’t absorbed into the culture of other nations until 1948. Since then peace in the Middle East was always uncertain, and many nations have gotten involved. Compare that with:

      Disobedience led to scattering of the Jews, started in ~607BC, completed in 70AD:
      Deuteronomy 28:64
      ‘Then the LORD will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the other.’

      Jews scattered brought back together again, in 1948, after ~2500 years ousted from the land.
      Jeremiah 16:14-16 and 23:3
      “I myself will gather the remnant of my flock out of all the countries where I have driven them and will bring them back to their pasture, where they will be fruitful and increase in number.

      God defends Israel from 3 other countries in 1967 during the Six Day War:
      Zech 12:8
      On that day the LORD will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the Angel of the LORD going before them.

      During the End Times, Israel will cause peace problems for many nations as seen today:
      Zech 12:2-3
      Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about… And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces.

      Those are just a few of many.

      .

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZWTTKJTI57YO7TZBJC66GA2OLU dennis

    Well.(Chinese Mythology..Greek Mythology or even Hindu Mythology) as i have said,”Happy are those who have a God-given talent to WRITE for something!” Tao lang ang gumawa ng lahat na yan. This is not also far from what we called “Illuminati” about 17th century pa..or about Talmoud of Jmmanuel as mentioned by Oscar Lei before.We are just entering to a different dimension of level in life…..But well in fact,if we boiled our discussions,at the end,is it Jesus Christ or God as the core of everything.

  • Juan Miguel Tanjuakio

    Exodus 20:4-6 (NKJV)  
    “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; [5] you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, [6] but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. 

  • Juan Miguel Tanjuakio

    This is sick. This ritual bears great similarity to Israel’s adoration of the golden calf. This is a clearly worshipping a piece of object which was a common sin among Israel’s people, which kindled God’s wrath. Now do not be surprised if this country is going to the dogs.

    By crispin abarientos:
    white nazarene, pink nazarene, blue nazarene. you can pretty much create anything from your imagination, and fickle-minded people will start praying on it and give away their hard-earned money with a smile.

  • vargassantiago24

    VIVA SEÑOR NAZARENO!

  • vargassantiago24

    Wow ang daming matatalino dito, pagan daw, dios-diosan daw, curved images daw na ginawang dios etc… wala lang kayong ganitong festivity sa reliheyon nyo kaya tumahimik nalang kayo.

    • Juan Miguel Tanjuakio

      Hindi ka open-minded.
      My intuition says you worship, pero you don’t read the bible.
      So you’re religion revolves around festivities? Not spirituality?
      Sorry pero opinion ko lang naman.

  • browndarwinian

    ‘In early Christian years, there were many leaders of the early church who thought that Christianity should be a new religion. Which it’s not unfortunately, for you – the reason it will never triumph is because it insists on shackling itself to the terrible books of the Jewish Old Testament. Great Christian thinkers like, Marcion, was the best known – there were Marcionite churches all over the Middle East, just for the study and worship of the message of the Nazarene. But it was decided, No, the whole Nazarene story had to prove, had to reverse-engineer and prove the ‘truth’ of the Old Testament books as well. And with this insufferable burden, you’ve saddled yourself with an unbelievable and wicked religion.

    It’s a pity, I sometimes think. But I think there are DEFORMITIES to the pure Christian religion too – a doctrine that I think is strictly immoral – the idea of Vicarious Redemption.

    Now though I say that I don’t think that there’s any historical definite proof of this person’s existence because all the accounts of him are so discrepant. There are so many of them that it’s enough to persuade me to think that there must have been some such figure. And it’s not that unlikely that there’d be a charismatic rabbi wandering in a region that was hungry for messiahs and kept on hoping to find them. It’s not at all unlikely that there was one or that he would have gotten in trouble with the Romans, and been, as people were who get in trouble with the Romans, very harshly treated.

    IT DOES NOT prove – it doesn’t even suggest – that his birth was divine. Or that his father was God. Or that his mother was a virgin. None of these things are remotely provable. They’re not even really arguable. They can only be ASSERTED.

    But suppose they are. I then have to be told that the torture and human sacrifice of somebody – which if I’d had been present it would have been my duty to try and prevent, which I did not ask for, which I have no control, which took place thousands of years, according to some, before I was born – commits me and I have no choice in the matter and that my sins are forgiven by this human sacrifice. Now what’s wrong with that?

    If I like you enough or love you enough, I can pay your debt. I’d say it’s folly on your part but I’ll pay it for you. In extreme cases people have been known to take other people’s places in prison or even – of the very few cases – on the scaffold. They’ll say I’ll do that for you. I’ll do it for love or I’ll do it for a suffering humanity. That’s the most they can do. And it’s not bad. WHAT THEY CAN’T DO is take away your sins because that would be to take away your RESPONSIBILITY. I can’t say you didn’t steal or lose that money that I’m having to pay now. I can’t say that this cause of folly didn’t get you into prison. It DID and now look at what you’re doing to me. I can’t relieve you of that. I can’t wash you white as snow and make you new again. That’s more than can be promised and should be promised.

    VICARIOUS REDEMPTION is SCAPEGOATING. It is throwing your sins onto an animal. It’s an old primitive practice from the Middle East. It doesn’t deserve the attention of civilized and thoughtful people.

    So anyway, let’s submit, it’s kindly offered to me. I give all these objections. I think it’s highly implausible, I don’t really believe the story, I didn’t ask for it and having considered it I would rather carry on living and try to live a decent life without it, ok thanks. But thanks for asking.
    “Oh no…sorry…you didn’t quite hear us the first time. It wasn’t an offer. YOU REFUSE IT ON PAIN OF DEATH. ..”

    Excuse me. I won’t be talked to in that tone of voice. Something about me. I hope something about some of you too. What was that? I’m not free to refuse this “offer”. You’re making me an offer I can’t decline. Was that a THREAT? Are you saying that if I turn away from this lamb’s blood, from which I’m supposed to be washed and say “I don’t think it will clean me.” You’d say “that means an ETERNITY OF TORTURE, you know. I hope you better take that into account before you consider our offer of eternal love.”

    No, no, no…THIS IS DIVINE NORTH KOREA…THIS IS CELESTIAL DICTATORSHIP. This is the worship that only a SLAVE could take part in.’

    -Christopher Hitchens

  • ShawnHunk

    To those who want to know the truth bout Immanuel Jesus Sananda life and teaching unedited, uncensored goggle “Talmud of Jmmanuel vs Mathew” or “Talmud of Jmmanuel translated by Maer”. There’s no problem with science the only problem is the people censuring science to fit their own agenda

  • ShawnHunk

    The whole bible is not a prophetic book. the bible is a compilation of books. some are historical (genesis,and other books writen by moses), devine Poetry (Psalm etc), prophetic, Daniel, Revelation, etc) Gospel (life of Immanuel Jesus Sananda.. Mathew, Mark, Luke, John and the new one Discovered at the tomb “Talmud of Immanuel” which is unedited,uncensored and directly  translated to german or english from Aramaic, as compared to the other four books that were translated to greek then latin not to mention the original was intentionaly destroyedafter being edited.) and there is also the work of Saul. Two books of the bible has been remove due to the fact that it is telling the truth and can hardly be edited. Christianity and Islam come from Judaism.

  • rickytell

    Haha..now you say I am  unchristian..look who’s talking..you are. You want inanimate object? your body is the best example. Now think hard (if you can) how you come about  into existence. The sperm of your father and the egg of your mother united and  transformed into you..is that by accident? Don’t you know we are  like God..we have the capacity to create things? because obviously we are sons of God..

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SBG72AYCZX2P6SE23262I2GNBQ fightforphilippines

    the universe is expanding after its creation from the Big Bang, that is pure science. but in the end, that will be proven otherwise similar to Einstein’s speed of light as the ultimate as matter energised will be faster was many times shown by present day physicists. the creation of Man, it can never be from evolution lest, we will have at least half men and half ape or anything in between in both negative and positive directions, but Man is such a miracle, with so much differentiation from said origin. the dinosours where once obliterated but they never re-lived, but Man was triumphant. still, it is difficult to think that Man Created itself from an evolutionary process, still, the best is Man was created by Someone Supreme and can only be God.

  • GKLer

    Evolution 101:  Single atom iron based life evolved into my Honda all on their own after zillions of years.

    Evolution 102: Single atom silicon based life evolved into my quad-processor core i7 all on their own after zillions of years.

    Evolution 103: Single atom carbon based life evolved into Ms. Universe 2012 all on their own after zillions of years.

    0. The god Darwin was wrong and you have been deceived by him.
    They confused “adaptation – a fact” with “evolution – a theory and a lie”.
    The following are fossils found alive today that CLEARLY did not evolve.
    These “fossils” are ALIVE today with NO EVIDENCE of evolving into something else.

    1. coelocanth – fossil records date to 400 Million years old, found alive in 1938, NO change.
    2. cyanobacteria – fossil records date to 3.5 BILLION years old, still alive today, NO change.
    3. liquidambar leaf – fossil records date to 20 Million years old, still alive today, NO change.
    4. ants – fossil records date to 92 Million years old, still alive, NO change.
    5. dragonfly – fossil records date to 320 Million years old, still alive, NO change.
    6. bee – fossil records date to 100 Million years old, still alive, NO change.
    (but you will hear evolutionists claim bees evolved from wasps)
    7. wasps – fossil records date to 30 Million years old, still alive, NO change
    8. horseshoe crab – fossil records date to 425 Million years old, still alive, NO change.
    9. cockcroach – fossil records date to 350 Million years old, still alive, NO change.
    10. OKAPI – supposedly existed 25 Million years ago, found alive in 1901, NO change.
    (this clearly disputes the evolution of the horse theory)
    11. Mammals: Bats, shrews, squirrels, tarsiers, opossum – 70 Millions years old, ALL ALIVE, NO change.

    12. I can go on… but it’s clear the evolutionists and atheists will have no explanation.
    They will lamely say “evolution stopped”. They will claim birds came from dinosaurs, when in fact the OLDEST bird (archaeopteryx fossil) had NO scales.

    13. There are 100000 dinosaur fossils – not a single one of them is a direct ancestor of ANY dinosaur species. They will say a whale came from a four legged mammal, when in fact nothing has been found.

    14. Conventional theories suggest mammals came after dinosaurs, why then were dinosaurs found in the stomach of mammals? (search for this).

    15. Where are the talking birds that build their own flying cars when there is more air on earth than land or water?

    16. Where are the talking fish that build their own submarine cars when there is more water than land?

    17. Where are the other (physically stronger) talking apes that build their own cars?

    18. Why is man the dominant species, when evolution would have naturally killed off the the physically weak, disease prone animals?  Only the really strong survive in the jungle, man isn’t that type of creature.

    19. Who then is living a lie?  IF you are a Christian, Jew, no way should you believe in the lies of evolution.  Evolution isn’t fact.  They will use unproven theories to prove an unproven. They will say evolution is a fact, when it isn’t even proven.

    20. THOUSANDS OF SCIENTISTS and other similar FALSE PROPHETS were wrong —
    The final nail in the THEORY of Evolution: Darwin had very poor eyesight, he never saw what a REAL woman looked liked. He failed in Scientific Attitudes 101: Observation. Search for Lin Ketong or Alodia Gosiengfiao’s photos – ABSOLUTELY no ape-like features. Wooof!

    • tamumd

      Who should i believe..you who obviously has biblical concepts of the origins of life or the thousands of scientists around the world who mostly agree on all the scientific basis of life on earth and the workings of the universe? Take a guess!!! It’s obvious in your diatribes that you have a very crude understanding of evolution. Each clade branched off. Some species evolved but that doesn’t mean that the old forms are completely wiped out. If they’re succesful they continue..hence we are still seeing unicellular life forms right now. If we follow your concept..then the whole earth would all be mammals only right now. How bizzare an earth would that be..and I don’t believe that would be conducive to our survival. Again mammals are not the end point of this evolutionary process. Please don’t make your head big that you..the human being has a special purpose in this vast natural world. You don’t… you’re just one of the animals here..a higher primate. The reason why we have not died off it’s because of scientific discoveries about diseases/disease processes. We have vaccinations now, potent antibiotics and cancer treatments. Otherwise we would have been wiped out by now of pandemics if not for all of these. Also we had major improvements in agriculture and genetic engineering. So we have relatively sufficient food supply compared to our hunter-gatherer ancestors. That tremendously increased our chances for survival. We learned how to manipulate our environment..so even inhospitable places are now occupied by humans. Again that’s not because god invented all those for us. It’s from the knowledge we learned over the years being thinking mammals!

      Oh if you’re questioning the evolution of whales and argues that there are no fossil evidence! What about the fossils of pakicetus and it’s transitional forms found by a group of scientist from the Univ of Michigan in the 70′s and then 90′s in the Sulaiman mountain range of Pakistan and the desserts of Egypt? Please watch the National Geographic documentary titled “The Walking Whale”.

      • GKLer

        tamumd:

        1. Pakicetus?  Next you will tell me the Ambulocetus Natans resemble whales too? 
         You are basing this similarity on what, the inner ear that whales have also, that they eat fish, that they swim just like whales?  I’ve got a neighbor cat that does all that.

        This is is pseudo-science!

        2. LOL, let me see, we have two eyes….so does many other creatures.We have ears….so does most other creatures….duhhh….Whatever similarity you see, they are far, very far, and INCONCLUSIVE from any evidence of evolution.

        3. This is the result of evolutionists trying to build a case when they are using strings to do so.  Next they’ll tell you this “vegruit” is the missing link between a vegetable and some fruit and you’ll simply agree with them.

        4. You ask any kindergarten kid..they would say it resembles a dog more or a mouse.  And they have none of your preconceptions. 

        5. The indohyus would resemble a deer mouse more.A cat size animal is now being linked to a WHALE just because it can swim?  LOL!If you believe all that, I have a bridge I can sell you for $1.

        6. So it took 50 million years to make a whale from this 4 legged mammal….yeah right.It’s semi-aquatic…Let’s see we have reptile-crocs do the same thing everyday at the zoo and there have been crocodiles for the past 240 MILLION years and they didn’t become croc-whales or croc-men or croc-fish or a croc-goose. They did however adapt to their environment.

        7.  Please, use those eyes of yours and apply some basic science called:  Observation.

        8. Let’s talk about humans for a second. Supposedly according evolution, “we” have been around for 200,000 years?. Bible will say, we have been around for about 6000 years. You are talking about medicine and vaccinations, those were invented 400-500 years ago. So how did man survive 199,500 years without it? When man is physically weak, and only the strong survive in genetic algorithms. Disease should have wiped him out long ago or some huge predators.

        9. You will now say, he had brains…well let’s take a look at that. It was only around 12000 years ago man started changing his land to produce food. So man had been a forager for 188,000 years. So how on earth could he have survived the jungle? I bet the average you and I wouldn’t be able to do it for a month not with bears, lions, snakes, mosquitoes, etc. all around.. Can you imagine how they could have even taken care of babies in such a hostile environment?

        10. Forgive me if I don’t watch Nat.Geo all the time… if you read bruisedlee’s posts about what Nat.Geo passes as fact these days for the sake of ratings and entertainment, I will strongly advise you from watching anymore TV. He keeps harping about the crusades were started by Rome to do stuff about idols ..LOL… wrong century, wrong empire, wrong enemy, wrong location…. and all according to Nat.Geo. according to bruisedlee.

        11. Pick up that “tablet”… the one that doesn’t need batteries…but you may need to flip pages.

    • jamp01

      ‘Coz those species were fit enough to survive the current conditions through the years. Evolution does not mean a denial of the existence of God. Evolution does not mean a transformation or mutation, it’s the offsprings of the species who possess a certain trait that made it possible to survive the conditions which is then carried over by their offsprings. You should at least know what Darwin was talking about before you trash him

      • GKLer

        jamp01.

        I disagree.  Evolution means denial of biblical truths.  The two can never, reach a consensus –  Never. 

        Either you believe in evolution or you believe man was created in the image of God (from dust), and not from the image of a monkey.  Frankly, if evolutionists want to punish themselves for thinking they came from an ape, by all means, continue to believe that.
        We laugh behind your backs.

        Gene-based inheritance which is what you just described, mutation all serve as the starting point of evolution.  I like to keep it simple with this for the average farmer/fisherman/squatter:

        Evolution 101:  Single atom iron based life evolved into my Honda all on their own after zillions of years.

        Examine the human body, even in the 21st century we cannot build a pump that can last a lifetime to replace an organic pump that does that much work in the circulatory system – a system that works with multiple systems.  Tell me, did the complexity behind these systems originate from designs started by “germs”?  :] 

         That’s what the human body is – a complex organic machine requiring maintenance.  It’s design is embedded in DNA, way to complex that it took 13 years to map with super computers in the genome project.  So all that complexity is an accident?  

        What does the Law of Entropy state?  in essence: increasing entropy, increasing disorder.  Man, the earth, is the result of the opposite.  Man however strives to increase disorder.

      • jamp01

        Ever heard of theistic evolution or evolutionary creation? I suggest you read about that too. That concept is accepted by Christian Churches, even Islam and Judaism have accepted that. So how could that deny biblical thruths? when they had even more time in studying the Bible and have accepted it?

      • jin2012

        jamp01 – this comes to mind on theistic evolution, which also by the way can be applied to the original article above:

        Colossians 2:8
        “See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy,
        which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather
        than on Christ.”

      • jamp01

        then I suggest you read about it first rather just thinking about it. I was merely stating that evolution need not deny biblical truths, many renowned Biblical scholars have accepted this theory

      • jin2012

        jamp01.  Forgive me if I seem dismissive.  Anything written by man is what it is – man-inspired as against the God-inspired scriptures (2 Timothy 3:16-17) which stands on their own.

        Catholic doctrines all claim to be biblically based, and they have all the scholars at their disposal that will tell you just that.  The practice above in the original article is supported and encouraged by Catholic doctrines.

        However, if you go straight to the source the practice above -is not- supported by the bible at all as pointed out by a number of posts below. It is “tradition”.   In fact, the practice is the opposite of what is indicated in scripture.

        This comes to mind when trying to reconcile man’s teachings and traditions with God’s words:

        Romans 1:25
        “They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created
        things rather than the Creator–who is forever praised. Amen.”

      • jamp01

        First, I’m not Catholic and don’t believe in Catholic doctrines, I myself see that some of their practices go against the Bible.

        We all have our interpratation of the Bible, that’s why there are many other people using the Bible to deceive people.

        What I’m just saying is that evolution could be supported by the Bible. I think, even you should know that the Bible at times should not be taken literally like – Jesus said, “I am the vine, you are the branches” (John 15:5). You wouldn’t think of him as a real plant, would you? But let’s say the Genesis account of creation didn’t really happen in a “24-hour” day. It was said that in 2 Peter 3:8 “with the Lord, a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day” and Psalm 90:4 “A thousand years are to You like a yesterday which has passed”. The Earth has been around for 4 billion years after all, a “day” could’ve mean a hundred millions, that’s enough time for some species to appear or disappear.

        Well, anyways, I’m not here to change your beliefs, I believe in what the Bible teaches and I accept that evolution could have happened and I also believe that it does not contradict it in any way.

      • tamumd

        What an open-minded, enlightened person your are jamp01! Way to go!!!

      • jin2012

        jamp01. 

        I hope you don’t mind the length of this post, I decided to paste the actual scriptures for easy reference.

        My post on why evolution is not supported by the Bible is summarize as follows (1-3):
        1.  How man was created. (Genesis 1 and 2)
        2.  Adam was one man.  (Romans 5, 1 Corinthians 15, Acts 17)
        3.  Jesus re-confirmed all this  (Luke 3, Matthew 19, Matthew 5)

        The specifics:

        I am aware of “a day is like a thousand years” (Psalm 90:4, 2 Peter 3:8).  I am glad you know of that.  Yes, the bible communicates messages in different ways (literal, symbolic, parables, etc) and let me add, I used to think evolution could be supported by the bible.  I admit I was wrong about that.  Here’s why:

        If you check the accounts in Genesis 1:3-31 it says how God prepared the existing earth for humans to live on.  Genesis 2 repeats that to an extent, to emphasize it. It wasn’t mentioned once.  Genesis 2:7 is quite specific in the construction of man, and that man did not come from other animals.

        Genesis 2:7 (NIV)
        “7 Then the LORD God formed a man[a] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.”

        Genesis 2:7 (KVJ)
        7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

        *note on translation:  living creature = living being = living soul.

        Compare those with Genesis 2:19 when it came to the animals:

        Genesis 2:19 ”19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name.”

        Next, Adam was >> one << individual.
        Refer to these:

        Romans 5:19
        19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

        To know who is "one man"  refer to this:

        1 Corinthians 15:22
        "22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive."

        1 Corinthians 15:45-47
        "45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”[a]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven."

        Note:  Christ is referred to as the "last Adam".

        Here's another:

        Acts 17:20-27
        "24The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands.25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else.26 From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live.27 God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us."

        Luke 3:23-38 lists the lineage of Jesus Christ very clearly and systematically.

        23 Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph,
        the son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat,
        the son of Levi, the son of Melki,
        the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph,
        25 the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos,
        the son of Nahum, the son of Esli,
        the son of Naggai, 26 the son of Maath,
        the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein,
        the son of Josek, the son of Joda,
        27 the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa,
        the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel,
        the son of Neri, 28 the son of Melki,
        the son of Addi, the son of Cosam,
        the son of Elmadam, the son of Er,
        29 the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer,
        the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat,
        the son of Levi, 30 the son of Simeon,
        the son of Judah, the son of Joseph,
        the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim,
        31 the son of Melea, the son of Menna,
        the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan,
        the son of David, 32 the son of Jesse,
        the son of Obed, the son of Boaz,
        the son of Salmon,[a] the son of Nahshon,
        33 the son of Amminadab, the son of Ram,[b]
        the son of Hezron, the son of Perez,
        the son of Judah, 34 the son of Jacob,
        the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham,
        the son of Terah, the son of Nahor,
        35 the son of Serug, the son of Reu,
        the son of Peleg, the son of Eber,
        the son of Shelah, 36 the son of Cainan,
        the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem,
        the son of Noah, the son of Lamech,
        37 the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch,
        the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel,
        the son of Kenan, 38 the son of Enosh,
        the son of Seth, the son of Adam,
        the son of God. 

        …. Clearly you can see Jesus is….son of David…son of Jacob…Abraham….Enoch….Adam….God.

        Finally, Jesus himself speaks on this and quoted from the Genesis account:

        Matthew  19:4-54 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’[b]?

        Jesus also speaks in

        Matthew 5:17-20
        "17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. "

        If you have any God-breathed (2 Timothy 3:16-17) scriptures that support any kind of evolution, animal, plant, fish or man, by all means, I would like to hear about it.

        Regards.

      • justonebyte

        Bro, don’t quote the bible as if it is a historical fact… Most of its content is work of Fiction! Just like Quoran and Tanach…

        There is No Nirvana as there is No Heaven! These are all cooked up!

      • jin2012

        justonebyte:

        Are you saying all the artifacts uncovered by archaeologists are fiction as well?
        link:  en dot wikipedia dot org/wiki/List_of_artifacts_significant_to_the_Bible

        That Cyrus, Nebuchadnezzer, Herod never existed as well?

        That the Biblical Flood never happened (I defer to the posts of GKLer below on this).

        If you believe Jesus is myth:

        The Sanhedrin executed Jesus, if he were a myth, why then is Jesus recorded in the Talmud? ie. Sanhedrin 43a – “eve of Passover, Yeshua was hanged…etc..” It also refers to 5 disciples of Jesus. It states how old he was when he died, it states the Romans got involved. So why would they bother to document a myth, the “enemy” of the Sanhedrin?

        In case you didn’t fully appreciate the implications of this – the Sanhedrin – was monitoring its enemies not “myths” – and they documented it. That’s like saying the CIA is monitoring mythical enemies instead of real threats and real “terrorists”.
        *Hanged is actually a correct term – as in hanged on a stake or “tree” or a cross.

        Thallus wrote about the crucifixion of Jesus, his writing dates up to 52AD.

        Flavius Josephus – is a member of the Pharisees (enemies of Jesus) and a court historian to Emperor Vespasian, he made references to Pilate, Jesus, James – brother of Jesus. Now why would he pass all of that as “myth” if he was a historian to an emperor? Why would he risk the ire of the emperor on passing off incorrect historical accounts?

        Is Pilate a myth too, Is James a myth too? I refer you to Pilate’s Stone and the Ossuary of James – both are artifacts. The Ossuary of James is unique in the sense it states: James – Son of Joseph, Brother of Jesus.

        Flavius also records Caiphas the high priest in Jerusalem from 18 to 36AD. Caiaphas, the high priest is mentioned in the Bible and his hand in the execution of Jesus – is he a myth too? I refer you to the Ossuary of Ciaphas – another artifact. His body and coins dating to ~42AD were found inside. 

        Tacitus wrote about the burning of the Jerusalem in 70AD, was he “inaccurate” about that too? The burning of Jerusalem wasn’t a myth – so is it possible Tacitus wrote other things non-mythical? 

        FYI Jesus prophesied about the destruction of Jerusalem (the Temple) in Matthew 24. Would a myth be able to do that? With all these independent accounts, and independent discoveries, physical evidence. Like I said, Jesus is not a myth. Reader’s Digest, Encyclopedia Brittanica lists Jesus as FACT.

        Finally, name me ONE movement that has 100,000 followers that has survived for at least 300 years without a real leader. Even in the animal kingdom, there is an alpha male – gorilla, rooster. Ancient man had “chieftains” as leaders. No one follows a myth.

    • arao_liwanag

      You think you are so smart, you are way behind of your information and knowledge. Pity. There are now a great body of knowledge and very recent discoveries which Darwin could not have known because the available facts and technology did not permit during his time, but every scientist that were involved in this undertaking agreed that Darwin was right all along and all their inconvertible findings validated Darwin’s assertion and theories. Oh by the way, the documentary was aired by the scientist involved under the auspices of KPBS.

      Another, all the things you recited is not your own its the product of science you merely use it ennumerate it to let yourself appear that your so smart. What a shame.

      • GKLer

        arao_liwanag:

        Why thank you for noticing my “smarts”. LOL

        But, I just need to be smarter than you, no more than that :)

        LOL more of the TV generation coming in.  Try actually reading something.

        Wow, Darwinian scientists ALL agree with each other that Darwin was right.
        Let me simplify that, Do you think all the volunteers working to support a presidential candidate would vote for him/her?

    • godofthunder16

      Didn’t I answer these during our previous discussion (“encounter with the devils”)?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SBG72AYCZX2P6SE23262I2GNBQ fightforphilippines

    the standards of today will be the mediocrity of tomorrow, this is many times proven time and time again. the world is not flat, electricity is liquid form, gravity varies, the earth’s magnetic field reverses itself, the universe started from the big bang and is endlessly expanding, light is the ultimate speed, energised matter outruns the the constant c, hiv puzzle has been decoded, etc etc. Man will continue to discover things but discovering things and being scientific is no reason to deny God’s existence for a million discoveries will lead to intelligence hitherto uncovered and it will never never never end. discovering today what Mankind will discover a thousand years from now raises you to a level of demi -God, what more in a million years from now??? and yet, some people refuse to acknowledge the existence of God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  such an ingratitude to a Superior Intelligence we call God and Creator 

    • tamumd

      Glad you acknowledge all those discoveries over the years! I am hoping though that by thousand of years or even million of years from now..we would have completely rid of our minds this concept of a god!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Steven-Zahl/1670371040 Steven Zahl

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  • Juan Miguel Tanjuakio

    This is sick. This ritual bears great similarity to Israel’s adoration of the golden calf. This is a clearly worshipping a piece of object which was a common sin among Israel’s people, which kindled God’s wrath. Now do not be surprised if this country is going to the dogs.
    white nazarene, pink nazarene, blue nazarene. you can pretty much create anything from your imagination, and fickle-minded people will start praying on it and give away their hard-earned money with a smile.

  • GKLer

    Oooh… it looks like I hit a nerve with these pass-unproven-theories-off-as-fact-evolutionists with more unproven-theories…LOL.  They are coming out!!!   And once they can’t manage the arguments and facts presented using their pseudo-science and other unproven-evidence, they will start with the fallacies, flawed logic, ad hominems and call people “un-smart” or “ignorant” etc…. Then as one atheist-evolutionist once posted here, you know you have won. LOL.

    Forgive me if I don’t watch “TV” entertainment. These shows typically air opinion rather than facts for the sake of ratings and commercialism.

    We “oldies” prefer reading.

  • jin2012

    tamumd:

    Here’s one more prophecy, and is the reason the
    Jews knew WHEN the Messiah (Anointed One) was coming if they understood what Daniel wrote in 9:25

    (Daniel 9:25)
    “Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild
    Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven
    ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench,
    but in times of trouble.”

    That’s a total of 69 weeks or 69 week of years or 483 years (apply Numbers 14:34, Leviticus 25:8).  The book of Daniel was written down between 618BCE to 536BCE

    (Numbers 14:34)
    “For forty years—one year for each of the forty days you explored the land—you will suffer for your sins and know what it is like to have me against you.’”

    (Levitcus 25:8)
    “Count off seven sabbath years—seven times seven years—so that the seven sabbath years amount to a period of forty-nine years.”

    We know from history that the command to restore Jerusalem was issued in 455BCE
    (refer to Nehemiah 2:1-8).

    (Nehemiah 2:1-8)
    1 In the month of Nisan in the twentieth year of King Artaxerxes, when wine was brought for him, I took the wine and gave it to the king. I had not been sad in his presence before, 2 so the king asked me, “Why does your face look so sad when you are not ill? This can be nothing but sadness of heart.” I was very much afraid, 3 but I said to the king, “May the king live forever! Why should my face not look sad when the city where my ancestors are buried lies in ruins, and its gates have been destroyed by fire?” 4 The king said to me, “What is it you want?” Then I prayed to the God of heaven, 5 and I answered the king, “If it pleases the king and if your servant has found favor in his sight, let him send me to the city in Judah where my ancestors are buried so that I can rebuild it.” 6 Then the king, with the queen sitting beside him, asked me, “How long will your journey take, and when will you get back?” It pleased the king to send me; so I set a time. 7 I also said to him, “If it pleases the king, may I have letters to the governors of Trans-Euphrates, so that they will provide me safe-conduct until I arrive in Judah? 8 And may I have a letter to Asaph, keeper of the royal park, so he will give me timber to make beams for the gates of the citadel by the temple and for the city wall and for the residence I will occupy?” And because the gracious hand of my God was on me, the king granted my requests.

    Finally:  The 69 week of years ended 483 years later, in 29 CE (ie. 455BC+483 years) the year Jesus was baptized and started his work, and officially became the Messiah.

  • tamumd

    Hahaha GKLer is a big time evolution denier..some simpleton who could not grasp and accept the fact that no god created or designed plants and animals and the universe! I wonder who would I believe…between you -who does not know a squat or maybe know something yet consciously denies it because it contradicts his literal interpretation of a storybook written during the bronze-iron age or the world-wide scientific community who mostly agree on these concepts and findings! By the way..not only the fossil records provide evidence for evolution, but also genetic, biochemical, specie distribution, comparative anatomic evidences all support evolution. So go ahead by all means continue with your iron-age mentality…i hope you don’t get sick and go to the hospital and ask to take medicines or antibiotics because those came to be from our understanding of evolution. I hope you only pray to your dead, non-existent god to rid of your body of diseases. Please be honest if you really don’t believe in evolution to never buy food raised commercially..coz those are product of genetic engineering from understanding of evolution. I hope you don’t contract drug-resistant TB or MRSA or VRE….coz those are caused by evolution. Again be honest to yourself and promise that you will only pray to you god to heal you from these maladies!!! And let’s see if your god is more effective than all of the above!!! lol….it’s interesting that you have this conspiracy theory working in your brain that the fossil evidence for evolutions are all hoax. Really..from major US and European universities to which the whole world-wide scientific community agrees? Those results are published in peer-reviewed scientific journals and not some Discovery Institute who is masquerading as pro-science when in fact it’s creationism repackaged in a deceiving wrapper. By the way they never produce any research work that’s even published in peer-reviewed journals. So they’re the laughingstock of the scientific community.

    To jin2012…sorry you keep quoting your holy book! I already told you that it’s a moot point to continue citing it since i don’t believe even a word from there. So it doesn’t prove anything by presenting something that comes from the very thing that we’re disputing about! We’ll just be going around in circle! Hahaha those numbers you just coughed out..didn’t mean a thing..no wonder the Jews missed or still waiting for the “messiah”..lol

    • GKLer

      tamumd:

      Medicine came from our understanding of evolution?  ahahahahah!  You really make me laugh.  You really need to change channels of whatever it is you are waching on TV.

      Concept of evolution came about ~~1700s.  Medicine/healing has been around since little kim got a bubu thousands of years ago.  The concept of modern medicine started in the 1600s BEFORE evolution.

      Please continue with your jokes.  LOL.

      • godofthunder16

        So you mean to say, modern medicine did not progress? Stayed the same since its conception?

      • tamumd

        Wow…i’m speechless!!! Are you sure you’re living with us in the 21st century GKLer? Because based on your responses you seemed to be stuck in centuries past!!! Modern medicine has no semblance of the the renaissance medicine you’re talking about! We’ve long moved on since the concept of different humors in our understanding of pathophysiology of diseases that Galen envisioned! We don’t use potions and paultices anymore. We rarely bleed people anymore either to treat diseases…lol. Well I could only think of a couple! Modern medicine is about micro arrays, molecular genetics, telemedicine, nanomedicine, lasers, nuclear radiology, stem cells, virtual surgery using robotics like the Da’ Vinci…etc!!! So it’s a far cry from the medicine of the 1600 that you know!!! And whether you like it or not…yes evolution definitely is crucial to our understanding of the emergence of drug resistant organisms and cancer cells, in our undertanding of inheritable diseases, in oncology in general.

        And regarding the evolution of whales…you can laugh..but sorry my friend..that’s what is accepted in science circles nowadays! So you just have to swallow your protestations and shut up!!!! Scientific progress will continue to roll on..without waiting for you!!! :-)

  • GKLer

    Folks,

    Take a look at the pictures of

    1. Pakicetus
    2. Ambulocetus Natans
    3. Indohyus

    Evolutionists are claiming these are the ancestors of Whales because they can swim and eat fish amd maybe a similar inner ear.  LOL!!!!!!!!! I’m surprised they didn’t say because they also have two eyes and a nose.

    They all resemble and is the size a mouse, mouse-deer, cat or dog more than a whale.  

    HAHAHAHAHA. And this is what they call science today. Absurdity to the max!
    LOL!!

  • godofthunder16

    L O L

  • GKLer

    tamumd: 

    For someone claiming to be speechless, you still have a lot of jokes to tell us.  LOL.

    Now, let me explain this carefully, I want to write this only once:
    1.  Don’t confuse  adaptation/tolerance with evolution in drug resistance.  The two are NOT the same.

    2.  On cancer, you are confusing mutation with evolution.  The two are NOT the same.

    3.  Related or works homogeneously, does not mean they are the same. Inter-dependent – maybe.  This is an inherent problem with evolutionists.  You show a skeleton of some chimp that had 2 eye sockets, arms, legs, and you conclude you are cut from the same branch.  96% chemical DNA similarity with humans is NOT 100.00%   Let me illustrate, drinkable water is H2O, given just one more oxygen atom, it is H2O2  hydrogen peroxide.  The two have similar molecular structures, but they are NOT the same.  Neither is a whale – a mouse-deer.  Neither is a Honda – a Maserati.

    BTW, I should tell you, mice can swim. But you think whales came from mice, :)
    right……

    4.  Read up on the history of modern medicine.  Modern medicine didn’t just start 12 years ago (21st Century) because all the fancy words you just blurted out came from somewhere in the distant past not recently.  

    Lets looks at one item in your list of fancy words:
    5. Medical lasers.  Lasers started in the early 1900s, because of studies in PHYSICS (ie. light).  Physics started from Philosophy, likely with the ancient Greeks.  I don’t think I need to tell you WHEN Philosophy started.  Cutting lasers can be traced to have with started with knives and blades. So please stop the lies.  Evolution has nothing to do with lasers. Next you’ll tell me modern construction has a lot to do with evolution.  LOL.  Please don’t confuse innovation, creativity with sci-fi evolution.

    See, this is what happens when your TV program runs out.  There is no episode 2 is there?
    Try reading “chapter 2″ instead.

    LOL!!!!! …this my friends is what the TV generation is all about today…

    • tamumd

      First of all I didn’t say laser has something to do with evolution..i was just mentioning those new developments because you were alluding to the the medicine of the 16th century..which i said is a far cry from what is is now! Whether you call it adaptation/tolerance..that cells are evolving..they’re changing..they have acquired new phenotypic characteristic..because of genetic mutation so that they could survive the new hostile environment in the presence of the antibiotic…same thing with cancer cells…so yeah..you can call it micro evolution! Mutation is a big part of evolution if you still don’t know that! Oh where did I say that medicine just started 12 yrs ago? How else would I mention Galen if I didn’t know that? You may have a problem with evolution…but sorry to tell you…every biological field including medicine recognizes it. So does paleontology. And your rant on laser and physics and philosophy..and starting a lie…I was lost!!! lol You’re rambling there. Now please don’t talk about chemistry if you have no clue of what you’re talking about! H20 and H2O2 have “similar molecular structure”! Are you kidding me? Water has 2 lone pairs of electrons and therefore is not straight molecule. In fact the bond angle is 104.5 whereas H202 has a flat geometry and has much smaller bond angle of 94.8-101.9 degrees. So their sturctures are NOT the same. Hahahaha someone is so scared of science…that he is lumping everything to evolution! Please go back to your 1600 era..maybe that’s where you should belong…because that’s when religious fanatics and the inquisition flourished! Please read my rejoinders carefully..otherwise it appears that you have trouble with comprehension….coz you’re putting words in my mouth!!!

      • GKLer

        tamumd:

        This is you:  From evolution all things came to pass….medicine…lasers…everything.

        You said lasers are part of modern medicine….
        and that evolution has increased our understanding of modern medicine which you listed lasers are part of.  So in your world, evolution had a hand in making medical lasers.  You placed that little morsel there thinking I wouldn’t notice :)  LOL   No worries, I willl let that slide.

        On cancer, drug-resistance.  Once again, you are confusing ADAPTATION (drug-resistance) and MUTATION (cancer) with evolution.

        Paleontology??  LOL
        There are 100000 dinosaur fossils found in museums today – not a single one of them is a direct ancestor of ANY dinosaur species

        I’m SURPRISED how closed minded you are with the “U” shaped H2O2 and the “V” shaped H2O, with only 1 oxygen atom difference.  Whereas, someone shows you grandma “Lucy”, and guys like you rejoice at the similarity with man’s own skeletal, genetic structures.  Try comparing Lucy with Lin Ketong.

        Then again, you also think whales are mice….

        I see your double standards now.  LOL!

  • GKLer

    The Religion called Darwinianism (by GKLer):

    DARWIN was a MYTHICAL PERSON. 
    A bunch of pre-scientists or pre-med students got together and invented Darwin.
    They were too afraid to take credit for fear of being persecuted.
    Somehow the movement gained momentum and flourished despite being all mythical.
    Today Darwinianism/evolutionism has thousands/millions of followers. 
    They all believed in this invisible mythical person who never actually existed.
    Their leaders are called scientists or Dr-PhD rather than priests or bishops.
    They meet in a place called The Laboratory instead of a church.
    Only Darwin’s book truly existed.
    It was the invention of men to promote a new doctor/scientist named Darwin.

    • tamumd

      Hahaha..in your dreams! Please go to London and visit his tomb inside the Westminster Abbey across from Newton!!! The British are very proud of him honoring him to be buried there. He has pictures..and everyone knows what he looks like! He went to Cambridge for his education..so if you want go check his scholastic records there! Now I wonder who is a big liar now!!! FLAT out liar! Remember..Jesus Christ don’t like liars!!! He might send you to eternal fire of damnation for that!!!! If I were you..I would be very scared!!! lol

      • GKLer

        tamumd:  I’m surprised you didn’t recognize “satire”.  It is a basic literary form in case you missed it.   

        I can now conclude with this second piece of evidence on hand, Filipinos just don’t get satire.  ;)

      • tamumd

        LOL..oh now you are weasling out! Got scared of eternal torment of burning fire? lol Wow…i didn’t know you’re that gullible!

  • GKLer

    At your service Jin,

    Evidence of a GLOBAL FLOOD of biblical proportions:

    300 cultures have stories of a massive flood wiping out all life on earth. Science needs to disprove them all before making a claim.Evolutionists and Atheists never looked at the evidence:

    1. Therefore:  we need to look for layers of mud/sand/deposits, evidence for massive and rapid erosion by water, significant salinity changes, layers of many dead (fossil/bones/remains) creatures, plants, trees etc…Here:

    2. In the Gulf of Mexico, sample cores are numerous (due to oil and oceanographic exploration).  Each inch of core repesent 1000 years.  At some point in the core sample, it will show a MASSIVE change in salinity by 10%!!! (due to fresh water rushing into the gulf).

    3. In the Black Sea, core samples taken will show that it used to be smaller.  You will find a uniform sedimentary layer that could only have been deposited from a flood.  In that layer you will find saltwater marine fossils.  The Black Sea used to be a fresh water lake, today it is brackish.  A uniform layer could not have been formed over a long period of time, it can only be formed with a massive pouring in of water (think 3,000,000 gallons per second).

    4. In the Grand Canyon which has 2 billion years of geological history would cover the flood in its layers.  It is 800m above sea level!!  You will find marine fossils in the Redwall layer (lime sand) deposited in a very rapid devastating manner.

    5. You will find evidence of massive kills across the globe:  in Zucheng, China, 7000+ fossils were found in a 300 meter pit.  In Nova Scotia you will find a forrest of fossilized upright trees 20-40ft long with missing roots at the 2500ft strata.  In Dijon-Lyons there is a cave of bones of lots of animals – bears, lions, deer, horses, wolves, ox.  There is no evidence they were “hunted” or “eaten”.  Explanation: rising waters caused them to group together, and die together.  Globally you will not find fossils in the right strata order, somehow the strata has been altered by several meters.

    6. The Swiss Alps, Sierras, Himalayas – highest peaks on earth – we find fossilized shellfish and marine fossils.

    7. Rock layers (deposited sediment) when traced, cover entire continents and vast areas.  The Redwall and Tapeats layer of the Grand Canyon is traceable across North America to Europe.  The Coconino layer has about 10000cu-miles of sand deposited by water rapidly, rather than slowly – this sand is traceable from southern USA to Canada.  Chalk layer of UK is traceable up to the Middle East.

    8. There is evidence of rapid massive erosion between rock layers, and evidence of NO erosion at all.  So what could cause rapid massive erosion?  - Lots of water.

    9. Rock layers do not bend due to hardness and brittleness, but in the Grand Canyon, you will find evidence it was wet and caused the Tapeats layer to bend, fold before it dried. Think wave-like patterns – you can look at the pictures somewhere.

    10. Evolutionists claim slow and gradual sand deposits. Geologists (real scientists) will not agree.

    11. Mt. St. Helens – they found a 1/10 version of the Grand Canyon 200 ft deep showing the similar evidence of rapid and massive erosion from WATER.

    12. Since I love whales, that’s right, they found an 80ft whale fossil, vertically positioned!! in a diatomaceous rock quarry (ref: Dicalite Grefco).  Fossilize whales have also been found 500 ft above sea level in Canada, USA.

    13. Next, ask why are there mass kills of FROZEN IN ICE(and in very good condition) mammoths in large numbers in Russia, Alaska, Europe.  If someone was looking for a reason why the “ice age” happened, the flood provides two things to fit: snow and lower temperatures from all the water. I mean where else could you possibly get enough water to make sheets of ice 2 miles thick?? PS. don’t bother talking to me about “several” ice ages.

    14. Next, people – we all know they left cities that seem way to advanced for their time frame, and they “disappeared”, mostly these cities have to be excavated, because of all the layers of sediments on them. When I say advanced, I am also talking about ancient maps (ref: Piri Reis) that could only have been drawn from way above the earth and are more accurate than recent maps dating 11-17th century.There are monuments – many are underwater today, we all know people don’t build them underwater.

    15. Anyway, on people, something this grand would have to be told to their children’s children so 300 cultures have stories of a massive flood. 300 — too many accounts, all of which a REAL SCIENTIST would HAVE TO DISPROVE before making a claim it never happened.

    16. Evidence is all around the earth, some people just don’t look for it or turn a blind eye to it. Instead, they make a lazy statement without looking at evidence on hand: “bible daw is fantasy”.

    17. That’s right, EVOLUTIONISTS ARE NOT TRUE SCIENTISTS, they are mostly lazy common people, giving REAL HARDWORKING scientists a bad name!!! Oh and once again, Darwin was a fraud – a fake.

    • tamumd

      Hahahaha..amazing how you present snipets of evidence..then make your sweeping, ignorant conclusion to make it appear that it is what you say it is…yet none of those support your theory of a huge, world-wide flood! If that’s the case that would have been taught  in high schools and colleges world-wide! But it’s NOT…coz Noah’s deluge never happened. Maybe it happened locally..but not a global flood that you like it to appear! Oh and don’t tell us that it’s the scientific conspiracy to hide these evidence..for what reason? Why would any scientist with integrity hide anything from the public? But the religiously nut jobs..specially the literalists…are bending over backwards to manipulate available evidence to try to give legitimacy to their fairytale book! Funny how you mentioned in you previous rejoinder that “god did not save the dinosaurs because they’re bad”? How bad could a dinosaur be than let’s say a lion or a hyenna?And that man walked and lived with the dinosaurs? How ludicrous those ideas are? I wonder if you’ve been watching the Jurassic Park!! lol…Just take at look at you assertion that because there are 300 cultures that has flood story doesn’t mean that that story is the result of Noah’s flood. If you even have a brain…flood is a natural phenomenon that happens everywhere…specially to coastal communities worldwide. So it’s not unusual that people will come up with legends and stories! Just like the origin of life. If you want a native filipino version….we have Malakas and Maganda sprouting from a bamboo! A far cry from your garden of Eden, snake tempting story. And if these stories really all came from Noah’s flood…who told the stories …where there extra 300 people from different tribes around the world in Noah’s ark? Othewise everything non-water living creature would have been decimated. And I can bet you…few of these stories have similarities from what your bible is narrating. By the way you can keep enumerating seeming evidences here…but you look and sound like an idiot to anyone who knows all these!!! Oh once again…GKLer is a fraud not Darwin!!!

      • GKLer

        amazing how you didn’t even counter physical evidence…and resorted to ad hominems.
        now I wonder who is in denial.

        In summary this is what your post is all about:

        GKLer:  Look over here there is a red rock.  We found red rock
        This is tamumd:  Nope no red rock there, I don’t see it, I never will, no such thing…hahahaha.

        enuff said.

      • tamumd

        Sorry buddy..I am not just as gullible as you are that’s why!!!!

      • GKLer

        LOL, 

        Darwin tells you whales came from “mice” and you believe it.

        I show you physical evidence, you become blind all of a sudden, and deaf if I spoke it.

        And you call me gullible?  Sure, as long as you know, so ARE YOU, and deaf, and blind to physical evidence.

        LOL.

      • tamumd

        If you insist on your Noah’s flood! I refer you to this site..that refutes all your claims in amazing details! It is well referenced so that you can double check its sources! it’s talkorigins dot org, slash faqs slash faq dash noahs dash ark dot html by Mark Izaak. ( I have to write it this way because I am not allowed to post links here). Make sure you read all the way to the end!! Its subsection is referenced but that’s not the end of it…continue reading coz there’s a lot more all the way to the very end.
        You can also read wiki entry on “Flood Geology”, and basically contracdicts all your assertions and give a historical background on how the field of geology first came to be! Most of them were pastors and religous people with ulterior motives! No wonder you like them so much! However…the field has become mainstrean now…and is one that’s respected by the scientific community.

        That’s you reading homework for tonight!!! lol…get back to me when you’re done!

  • tamumd

    I’ll leave you with this word by an Evangelical christian who also happens to be a geologist by the name of Davis Young :”The maintenance of modern creationism and Flood geology not only is useless apologetically with unbelieving scientists, it is harmful. Although many who have no scientific training have been swayed by creationist arguments, the unbelieving scientist will reason that a Christianity that believes in such nonsense must be a religion not worthy of his interest. . . . Modern creationism in this sense is apologetically and evangelistically ineffective. It could even be a hindrance to the gospel.”Another possible danger is that in presenting the gospel to the lost and in defending God’s truth we ourselves will seem to be false. It is time for Christian people to recognize that the defense of this modern, young-Earth, Flood-geology creationism is simply not truthful. It is simply not in accord with the facts that God has given. Creationism must be abandoned by Christians before harm is done. . . .”

  • GKLer

    tamumd:

    I’ll leave you with this:  The Catholic Church has hundreds of “Davis Youngs”, scholars, scientists, priests, bishops, politicians, wealth, $$$, ALL at their command and disposal.  Somehow they found a way to say it is OK to venerate (=worship) the Black Nazarene  and other images (=idols), which are now all part of Catholic Doctrine and Tradition for hundreds of years, which are ALL biblically based as they have been claiming and supporting with all these “experts”, Church scholars etc….  But when someone looks at the source (=Bible) with no preconceptions…..and get the simple truths from it….as seen in the dozens of posts from those who quoted scripture below (even when using a Catholic Bible like the NAB) make it clear and obvious, they (the Church experts, scholars,etc) were ALL wrong in their Doctrine.

    So apply that simple logic and reasoning to your last post on Flood-geology and Davis Young.  People can be wrong BIG TIME, and as seen with the Catholic Church, a whole LOT of people can be wrong BIG Time, and in this case so are you ;)

    • tamumd

      Is that the best rebuttal you have for each of their points? And why do you think they are WRONG? Be specific!!! Did you even visit the Talk Origins Archives and read the one I told you to read? By the way that site is full of answers to the questions you’ve been rambling about! They even have a section there on your favorite topic..about the WHALES. The answers are given by real scientists with references..which you could check out for yourself. If you’re going to present facts you also need to reference things or at least show your source.

      Finally why are you suddenly ranting about catholicism.?…i thought i’m clear enough here that I am an atheist!!! I could care less about what they believe coz they’re just as nonsensical to me as your beliefs are!!! Your accusations on catholics is tantamount to a pot calling a kettle black!!! And no you cannot use the same logic. Religious assertions are mostly irrational at best. Fanatics are willing to twists facts and truth to use it to their advantage and give legitimacy to their faith. On the otherhand..that’s not the aim of science! If new evidence suddenly is discovered that contradicts the prevailing concept..those will be changed accordingly. Religion cannot do that because they don’t want to make it appear that their god is not perfect and commits error! Again if I have to believe on someone’s assertion..I would choose those people’s assertion ( Talk Origins Archives) over yours which do not make any sense at all… and therefore are FLAT OUT WRONG!!!! So now I wonder who is trying to be deaf and blind about those facts?!!!



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